Who/What created God?

Is that a fair statement? Atheists arent without moral fiber. Atheists arent evil people that go around looking to do bad things because they dont believe in a god. Sounds alot like the other side of the coin that Collin was alluding to with the "feeling of superiority".

 

I think it a fair statement for anyone that feels it fair to say that Christianity's only purpose is as a crutch for those scared of dying.

 

It doesn't do that at all. I'm trying to think of a way of phrasing the fact that you're very intellectually limited in such a way that it will get by in this censored forum. I'm not saying that to be insulting, but because your mental limitations really do prevent you from understanding certain concepts, like in this case. You don't grasp what I said or its significance, so you don't understand how it completely undermines what you claimed. The only thing I can do is repeat myself and hope that you either experience a moment of clarity where you "get it" or else that you realize you don't get it.

Why people are Christians (or Muslims or Hindus or whatever) is a totally separate issue from whether or not there is a supernatural being. For millenia people believed that Troy was a myth, but the story was used anyway to teach a lesson about the need for caution and skepticism when dealing with outsiders. Eventually archaeologists proved that it wasn't a myth, but that did nothing to change the purpose for which the story had been told all that time. So if you want to discuss why a certain person expresses religious beliefs, make your own thread for that, but it has nothing to do with the question of whether or not "God" exists.

You can't argue that some people embrace religion in a search for meaning, but by the same token, you can't argue that some people don't. Making a blanket statement like that which is obviously false only further illustrates that you have this pigeon-holed, stereotyped view of religious people as disfunctional hicks who are too dumb and superstitutious to embrace your "truth." Some smart people aren't religious. Some smart people are. There are plenty of scientists who provide us with rational explanations for phenomena in the universe yet also possess strong religious beliefs. The two are not exclusive.

You can't know which religion is right, but that's what belief is all about. With every paradigm shift in a particular physical science, there are usually groups with differing explanations for phenomena. The fact that there are multiple opposing yet seemingly valid viewpoints doesn't imply that none of them are correct. Usually one of them ends up proving true. Now obviously we're not going to prove the existence of "God," as that's beyond our capabilities, but I'm simply making the point that differing opinions doesn't rule out one being correct.


CC:
I agree with you in that I don't think atheism is an attempt to escape from moral responsibility. There are a lot of different reasons why someone might profess to be an atheist, just as there are one might be religious. I do believe that atheism is a form of faith, however, as I can't imagine any strictly rational position going beyond agnosticism.

 

When you continuously use this empty rhetoric against anybody who has a differing opinion from you it loses its effectiveness.

"Whether or not there is a supernatural being" was not the question asked; nor was why a certain person expresses religious beliefs. "Who/What created God" was. So responding to that question with "man" is a valid answer.

Religion begs to answer the ultimate question of "How we got here and what happens when we die". So yes, I can argue that religion is the ultimate search for meaning.

For once you and I agree on something.

 

I understand why you want to pretend it is empty rhetoric, but it isn't. Ask around. People don't think you're smart because you aren't. Luckily for you, the reason I do end up pointing that out frequently is because you have a lot of company.

Of course it was. This is exactly what I mean about you having a limited understanding of concepts. The question "Who/What created God" was posed expressly to challenge the existence of God. If you can't even get that, then I don't know how you plan to participate in the subsequent debate.

You claimed that "religion is a search for meaning" and that "the search for meaning becomes the only answer" for why anyone belongs to a particular religion. That was an obviously wrong thing to say, as I explained. A "search for meaning" is only one of many motives for embracing religion, as Big Mark also tried explaining to you. Your problem, unfortunately, is that you're not prepared to acknowledge when someone exposes a major flaw in your reasoning.


You believe that faith is a sign of limited intelligence. The irony is that you think so precisely because your own intelligence is limited. Again, smart people can be atheists, agnostics, or religious. Believing in a supernatural being doesn't necessarily mean turning away from knowledge and inquiry about the physical world. You're confusing motives with characteristics, as well as indulging in misleading stereotypes.

 

That's gotta smart.

 

Throttle back, folks. Keep to the discussion and leave the personal insults out, or go play somewhere else.

Thanks.

 

that's not entirely true. if you don't believe in a supreme creator, you can still say somebody created the idea of god. like say, the easter bunny. doesn't exist, but somebody created "the easter bunny".

certainly, tho, the question is posed more for those who believe. to me, the question is essentially the same one believers like to use in an attempt to persuade non-believers that there must have been a creator -- the universe didn't just come from nothing, ergo something must have created it. the same can be said for god -- didn't just come from nothing, ergo something must have created him. the only real difference is that people can accept that god is unimaginable, but they don't seem quite as ready to accept that the boundries of the universe and time might be unimaginable.

 

The idea that I would ask for approval of my intelligence on a message board is laughable.

No, I said it was the answer for why they exist independently of each other. I agree that religion has many other benefits. I think the bible is a great tool for teaching morals and ethics. I just don't take its word as literal.

How does my saying "people have a hard time accepting that we are mortal beings" translate into limited intelligence? I think we all have a hard time grasping this concept, and we all deal with it in different ways and search for different answers. That's not to say that one answer is better or "smarter" than the other.

...You have yet to answer the question posed at the beginning of the thread in your own way, while at the same time attempting to poke holes in my answer. So why don't you give us your answer as to Who/What created God?

 

You have made it quite clear that you look down on people who have religious beliefs, and you think that they're just embracing fairy tales to "search for meaning." That translates to limited intelligence because you haven't shown the ability to grasp the distinction between supernatural beliefs and knowledge of the natural world. You paint Christianity like it's Greek mythology with gods driving the sun around the world in a chariot.

I'm an agnostic, so naturally I'm going to say "I don't know."