What is evil?

The word liberty as it is used in this discussion needs to be better defined. I doubt wire taps on international phone calls are something Ben Franklin was talking about or would have been talking about had telephones existed back then. I am not willing to give up essential or basic rights either but the things you are talking about are on the fringe. Every law that is passed infringes on someone's freedom. There has to be a balance for society to function. Show me where the bill of rights guarantees that the government can not spy on communications that originate from foreign lands from sources suspected to have ill intent.

 

Knock off the potshots, people. Stay on topic or take it to Rant & Rave. I am not picking on Builder either... there are borderline statements in other posts that I'm not keen on surgically removing at the moment, but the overall tone is reaching a point unsuitable for this particular forum.

Please continue your discussions based on substance, not personal attacks. Some jokes here and there are no problem, but please be adults here and observe the rules of common courtesy and respect.

So the Mods have spoken. So shall it be.

 

My bad...I think I actually ran this thread down the wrong path...I'll admit it. Sorry all!

 

I'm sorry I've been gone so long. I've been off work and my PC blew up about a week ago. I'm disappointed in the direction this thread took, and I wish I could've cut it off a lot sooner. However, Ecilam has issued a good warning, and I'm backing him up 100%.

 

No sweat, HB. That's why there's two of us.

 

Frick & Frack
Mutt & Jeff
Lone Ranger & Tonto
Batman & Robin
Abbott & Costello
Bread & Butter
Hamhocks & Greens
Buttermilk & Cornbread

 

Just checked back here for the first time in awhile. I'll post a couple of things to get this back on track. Here are two excerpts from a doctrine statement I submitted to the SC United Methodist Board of Ordained Ministry (seeking ordination):

First, an original sin exerpt:
I would argue conversely that original sin should be seen as selfishness. In addition to being created in the image of God, we all are imperfect; we all are sinful. We all experience original sin in that we are all, originally, at birth, selfish. Empathy, the skill of considering the feelings of another, which is essential to deeper senses of love towards another, is a learned behavior. For the first year or so of a child’s life (s)he only perceives the self, even perceiving other persons (such as mother and father) as an extension of self. It is only in the second and third years that children begin to consider other people as distinct from themselves. Considering the feelings of others is learned later, and poorly learned at that by many people.

Because of our sinfulness, our inherent selfishness, we are separated from God and His image in us is tarnished, even obscured. We are in need of restoration of right relationship with God, but we cannot overcome our own sin and selfishness. Not only must this restoration originate from God, it is the manifest desire of God. The grace of God seeks to restore us into loving relationship with Him. Jesus’ act of self-giving love through the Cross makes possible this restoration of relationship with God through the Resurrection.

 

Another, on the concept of evil:


b) What is your understanding of evil as it exists in the world today?
In the social experience of modern American culture, evil is often cast as atrocious, exploitative and/or violent acts towards an innocent person It can be argued that evil is failing to obey God. Such understandings are partially true, but not all encompassing. Some believe evil is found primarily in the spiritual forces of the Devil and demons. This also is partially true.

I would suggest that evil should be primarily understood as the distortion of love. The story of the Gospel is of an amazing, self-giving love. When asked what is the greatest commandment, Jesus responds with two: love the Lord your God and love your neighbor as yourself (Luke 22:34-40). Evil can be understood as both a failure to love God and a failure to love neighbor. Many people are uncomfortable with such a definition of evil. The human tendency is to define good as obeying a certain moral code that gives significant leeway for selfish motives. For example, many Americans pursue wealth relentlessly, spending extravagantly on luxuries while many here and abroad live in impoverished need. They avoid seeing their own evil by believing they are good by not stealing, going to church, etc.

This understanding of evil is intertwined in our United Methodist tradition. John Wesley preached precisely that to spend money on luxury while another persons’ need was unmet was evil. Wesley proclaimed such truths, which are radical and harsh to the modern ear, precisely because of his understanding of sanctification – that to encounter the love of God was to be transformed to participate in the love of God.

I would add one further nuance. Gail O’Day argues that in the Gospel of John “sin is defined not by what one does, but almost exclusively by one’s relationship to Jesus, and more specifically, by whether one believes that God is present in Jesus.” Evil is the denial of Jesus, and by inference the denial of God. It fits within the definition of evil as a failure of love, in that accepting Jesus is a reception of love and a participation in love. But it also communicates the vital fact that true love is not possible without God.

 

Jello Pudding Pops and Oreo Cookies.

Straight from the DEBIL!