What awful thing will happen today?

Good then let's settle and keep getting nothing from the second round...

 

You mean third round, right? That's where he's been ass lately.

When you look at his body of work, he hits on first round picks almost all the time. His average hit rate for later round picks is around 50%, and that's in line with most GMs.

I don't intend this question as a defense of Hurney, but I'm curious about your take on it. Say you're a GM and you draft a guy in the third who isn't on your team in two-three years. But, he goes to another team when you release him and ends up developing into a good starter. Is that on the GM for drafting the wrong guy, or the coaching staff for not developing him? I'm generalizing here, because the scheme fit is also an issue--Marquise Haynes is probably never going to be great in a 4-3 front, right?

 

Hurney was infamously bad in the second round, with Ryan Kalil and DeShaun Foster being the only two that weren't complete garbage. His other second rounders were Bruce Nelson, Keary Colbert, Eric Shelton, Richard Marshall, Dwayne Jarrett, Everette Brown, Sherrod Martin, Jimmy Clausen, and Amini Silatolu. That is a giant pile of shit.

 

Damn colin, I almost threw up reading the last two sentences.

 

I'm not writing either Jackson or Little off yet. In his first stint, he had 10 2nd round picks. Of those, he hit on four, missed on five, and gets an incomplete on Bruce Nelson, because who could have seen that coming? I know you cite only Kalil and Foster, but both Richard Marshall and Sherrod Martin got starts not only for the Panthers but for other clubs. So I think they count for something, even if only Kalil made the pro bowl.

 

You're setting an incredibly low bar if you consider Marshall and Martin to be hits. If you get back end contributors like that in the fourth round or later, that's fine, but second rounders need to be better than that.

 

2nd rounders should be considered good enough to be first year starters or 2nd year starters and holding positions throughout their first contracts and playing well. Nothing less or a waste.

For the club that drafted them, imo.

But that's also wishful thinking, maybe.

I think the first round should get you the best player available, and the 2nd should be the best player at a needed position the 1st didn't fill. Unless there's somebody else sitting there who's a no-brainer.

Trading up for anyone anywhere who doesn't start and/or fill an immediate absolute need is really retarded, imo.

 

The third round picks were contributing at a pretty good rate up to 09 and are getting worse, the second round picks peak at Kalil and Foster? everything else is sporadic contributions at best. So the only case for is the first round and 4-7?

If I'm a GM I reevaluate my methods and try to find out why, you would probably find its a bunch of reasons coming together though so I'm not sure what you really learn

Back to Hurney's picks which ones went on to develop elsewhere? Mathis, Montgomery are the only standouts you get a fluke good year from Barnidge. Many others just disappeared forever.

 

Joe Berger and Will Montgomery found a lot of success after Carolina. Michael Gaines started more games for other teams than he did the Panthers. Terrell McClain and Sione Fua somehow had decent careers after Carolina.

I agree that you want your second rounders to be starters, although I wouldn't suggest they need to be day one starters. You're not getting stars with every pick, and all three of the second rounders I mentioned were NFL caliber starters, which is really all you can ask for IMO. I'm also not saying Hurney is great, just saying he's average after the first round.

 

How much does scouting come into it in the lower rounds? There has been some turnover in scouting, right?