Wayne Shorter

true artist
[I apologize for this editing. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated; over in the Technology Forum. thanks.

 

i did suggest something.

in technology, jazz.

 

amazing musical mind. Very underrated. I've never been huge on what fusion was (it always seemed so very "hey look at us, we're electronic") overall, but enjoyed what he did, plugged or not.

 

Yes, you got that right! He's a true artist. His composition and performing are amazing. Study the harmonic concept/changes of his, e.g. Fee-Fi-Fo-Fum.
You hit another nail on the head with your assessment of the fusion thing IMO. The electronic thing was meant to make a buck, period; although it can be perceived as pretentious as hell, they wanted to appeal to a crossover audience at a time when it seemed that what everybody wanted to hear was electronic, and were quite successful.

 

I hated for that to sound too textbook since God knows that's probably how I read it and therefore how I interpreted it. But having started to get into electronic effects a little (both horn and guitar), looking back at fusion it just seems to be a joke. It took Miles' mocking a step further. There was some good stuff, certainly, and back then there weren't as many effects as now obviously, but it just seemed like it was done because it was to be done.

Granted what Miles did got copied over and over, and IMO Miles was never as good without Gil Evans telling him what to do.
Shorter just seemed to get it, without anybody's help.

 

The last Miles that I paid attention to was In a Silent Way. I'm not familiar with his more electronic endeavors(I'm not saying they're good or bad).
In my post, I had the group Weather Report in mind, and Corea's Return to Forever, somewhat.
I think that, and you'll probably disagree, that the fusion scene tried to incorporate some of the same concepts that made rock groups successful. This, done in a jazz concept, is totally contrary to the "principles" of jazz, and comes off as being disingenuous or "put-on," fake, maybe tongue-in-cheek at best. I think that most musicians realize(d) this, but realized that things were/are financially tough, and didn't publicly admonish the practice.

BTW I totally disagree with your take on Evans' telling Miles what to do perception. What gives you that idea?

 

Gil telling Miles what to do was an overstatement, I'm sure. I just feel like what Miles did by himself was just decent, what he did with Evans was spectacular. Granted, Bill Evans and others that he collaborated with

No, I'd agree with that. Fusion did want to take that rock feel and ideal and run with it. But they're two incredibly different animals. Now if there'd been a greater insurgence of funk at that time, or more tasteful effects (I do realize that, in 1970, a tape delay making one sound repeat was at the time "cool" and that's why they were playing around with it, not so much for the artistic necessity of having it), I think it would be considered much more artistic now. The two styles tend to mix better, save the driving beat that just will never fit too well.

To me it just seemed like messing around, Miles' way anyway. I think after Birth of the Cool, and then Kind of Blue, he'd felt like it was time for that new innovation. I know that, had I been around I would have tired of that music quickly, but I also know being the gearhead that I am, I'd have wanted those effects. I want a ton of them now. It's just fun to mess with. It damn sure isn't adding to my expression, and just like any other electrified instrument, it's just a way of flavoring a tone, not disguising one. I see way too many guitar players who rely on the effects like a crutch, and as I get better at the guitar I realize it's easy to do. But it can't make you a better player, no more than the idea of some miracle mouthpiece. I've fallen into both those traps before. You still gotta be good, to be good.

 

Oh, no! Just different. Sounds like you favor the orchestral colors that Gil provided for Miles[hence your fetish with electronic gizmo's/tonal colors(?)], rather than the small (acoustic) group concept. I absolutely love the Gil/Miles stuff, but, the stuff that he did with Shorter, Williams, Hancock and Carter were spectacular, also IMO; albeit more subtle, as was the group with Trane, Cannonball & Evans; although Trane's style was/is pretty spectacular, literally, in the way he played, not just fast.

 

those groups were both very good. Naturally I like Cannonball and John's groupings together more, because both just had what I looked for. Just seemed like, every time, I was overwhelmed with his sidemen and underwhelmed with him. I can't explain it that well at all.

 

Balls to both of yall. Space is still the place.

I actually got into Miles backwards, hearing Live/Evil first, then going to In a Silent Way, then to Kind of Blue, Sketches of Spain, ect. Since that was my first impression of him, perhaps that is why I have such appreciation for his and Herbie Handcock's music.

He created a whole musical style for the host of jambands and fusion artists out there.