Wakeup Call

Quote: I'm not about to call for the QB's head after one bad game aganst the word champs.


Would you call for his head after we lose 18 more? Is it alright to start whining and crying for a change after maybe 50 more losses? What if that 50th loss is aganst a team that hasn't lost a game, will that excuse it?

I can't wait to see how many times we have to lose before spmeone decides it's okay to make a leadership change on a leaderless offensive team.

 

Weinke showed some fire last night - he didn't play especially well, but that was a symptom of the patriots bringing a blizt every time he touched the ball. nobody can play good if they don't have time to read through their progressions.

remember, the panthers didn't have a full week to practice against what the patriots would be brining. and they do have a quality defense.

the guy has one year under his belt. last week it looked downright fantastic. this week he was being blitzed from every direction and looked mortal.

you guys are silly for calling for the guys head... ok, you bench him. then what do you have? Rodney Peete? Fasani? Those guys aren't going to be any better. It's easy to say "bench weinke!" when you don't think about the consequences.

 

Not 50 more. Probably not even 10 more. But not yet. Again, most everybody was singing his praises after the last game.

Weinke played poorly. The line played poorly, and we were coached poorly. I don't see anyone calling for Henning's head for one horribly called game.

 

>>I'm the least mature married 29 year old I know. Proud of it to

oh, don't worry, it's got nothing to do with that. It's that you don't go down to his level talk about maturity and then intentionally misspell the starting QB's name in an emasculating way because he doesn't like him.

>>Wheras the Dallas defense lacks size, and therby we can get a running game going, it seems the bigger, more physical defenses we have trouble with. Can't wait to play Tampa.

Well, of course. Mitchell is a strength in the run game but against bigger lines he won't be taking on a Richard Seymour.
We still do have to account for Booger playing Tampa. And that leaves Sapp on Nesbit in the passing game.

>>The Pat corners were doing a good job of pressing, and Weinke just looked confused by the defense, and just dumbed down and threw safe passes. When he had time, that is. But he was off, regardless. Can't play scared.

Yeah, he's gotta break himself of the WCO. That's why WCO QBs look good in preseason, or have no excuse not to anyway. The poor decision making makes no sense - save for lack of confidence in the primary play calls. Of course, I've heard some say he locked onto his first, some say he checked down too early. And they're talking about the same play. So who knows - it'll take me a while to get to tape. I'm not saying either is wrong - but I'm going to have to better judge for myself.

>>I'm not about to go and call for a QBs head after one preseason bad game vs the World Champs. Particuarly after he just had a very good game. Wins will excite fans, and I don't mobility really excites players. Plays do. He didn't play well. Too much short, too hesitent. Calling that performance b-line like is insulting, and not to Weinke.

exactly. Weinke had a bad game - and to a point he's accountable for the "loss". But he's not the reason we lost. he's one of twenty reasons we lost - he's just the easiest for the casual snotty fan to point at. I don't remember much upfield throwing, and plenty screen and dip crap. It's obvious what Weinke's strengths are, and they weren't used last night.

I can't explain the line play. That's baffling. Terry? Terry should have looked better. He's a superb run blocker right now. Is it lack of strength? Is it mental? he's athletic enough.

Leadership? First off it's pretty damn assuming to suggest we know what's going on the huddle and whether or not a player is "leading" based on winning. Leading and winning are incidental just as quarterback skills and scrambling skills are just as vaguely related. They don't require the others' presence to happen.

>>He can throw a crisp ball, but he does not excite players or fans....

they're not in the business of making guys who can scramble. Average fan jimmy and susie might want to see a scrambler but the end result is that a good quarterback does his job. Problem is, Weinke played down to the same level as Fasani last week - the difference being that Weinke looked timid inside the pocket because of indecision and Fasani looked scared running. End result is the same but if jimmy and susie want to be more excited about a completion their stupid asses can watch Pittsburgh.

>>Moose had an excellent game with three big gains and no dropped balls. Smith had a bad game. Byrd reappeared. Desparately need a big-time receiver to compliment the group we have.

It's odd that against great coverage Byrd is emerging and Smith is disappearing. Guys like Smith have to really show up when they know they're about to get nailed - something I noticed on the one drop - and guys like Byrd have to fade off. Gotta have big games by guys like Smith and in the end we get dicked. Face it - Isaac Byrd shouldn't be in contention for that job, and this team should have been able to have gotten rid of him long ago. And yet when all is said and done he's keeping pace with the people the fans think should be "the answer".

>>Linebackers looked good.

Hope they do without Fields. Expecting him not to be there against the Ravens really lessens our chances of containing Lewis. I knew coming in he'd be a guy who wouldnt' be a factor against the pass - but he'd be our other big run stopper. And we're without him for a while.

One more positive - Peppers did it against a real tackle this time. No more complaining that somebody got by because Juan Valdez' burro was the guy blocking. He was a beast.

I really have been unimpressed with Burton. Equally, I've been floored by Jenkins' abilities and am very happy to know we got something out of him this early when some thought he'd be a third or fourth year blossom.

 

It was a preseason game for christ sake. Defenses generally throw more out there than offenses do in the preseason. Some teams don't even put together a complete offensive game plan so as not to show their hand too early, before it counts.
Once the season starts, we'll start opening the playbook up a little more than just basic stuff. That should help a little.

 

Nice try but sorry but that didn't help, McFly. Offense looks terrible. WR's as a group look terrible. Offensive line looked terrible. Weinke's play is worrisome. Offensive scheme looked terrible.

>> Leadership? First off it's pretty damn assuming to suggest we know what's going on the huddle and whether or not a player is "leading" based on winning. Leading and winning are incidental just as quarterback skills and scrambling skills are just as vaguely related. They don't require the others' presence to happen.

Surely you jest when you suggest that leadership is not an important element of being a QB. I suppose in theory a team could win without leadership. But surely you will agree that there have been too many instances where teams with inferior talent have won because of great leadership. And I am guessing that most of the teams that have made it too the Superbowl have had terrific leaders at the QB positions. QBs are set up on the team to be it's offensive leader and they are trained to be leaders from the first moment they begin playing the position. most coaches go out of their way to establish the QB as its leader and then to protect that role by avoiding QB controversies (unless you're Spurrier). I disagree. I think leadership in the QB position is nearly essential to winning.

i agree to some extent about not knowing Weinke's effectiveness as a leader and have given him the benefit of the doubt in the past sense, as you say, I don't know what goes on in the huddle and locker room and in that the coaches and players have stuck with him. And I realize that leadership can come in many different forms. But I think that sometimes we can make some assumptions by what we observe on the field over a course of time. For instance, I think we can all assume that Jeff George, despite an awesome arm, was a toad. We can make that assumption by his consistently cowardly play on the field and ranting at coaches on the sidelines. I’m not trying to suggest that Weinke is anything resembling JG but I haven't yet observed him firing up his teammates. In the NE game he finally got pissed on his last drive. He didn't start showing up his teammates on the field by barking at them or pointing fingers but you could tell by his voice and the look in his eyes he was pissed (not scared or frustrated, which was encouraging). He got energized for the first time that i can remember and the guys on the field with him seemed to get energized. I don't remember how that drive got stalled. May have been that the drive that ended with him scrambling on a 3rd and long only to come up 2-3 yards short by him stepping outa bounds. Don’t know that he could have made it but, honestly, I would have liked to have seen him put his shoulder pads down and gone for it. That would have created some excitement and passion in his teammates and shown them how bad he wants to win. That he's not asking them to put anything on the line that he's not willing to put there. I know that you'll argue that it's preseason and it would have been stupid for him to risk injury. And I would agree with you if he was Brett Farve and had already established himself as their leader with his teammates. IMO Weinke needs to do this now, somehow ... in preseason if he can. He needs to breathe a fire into HIS offense.

I think that's what Sandy, jimmy and susie like when they watch Fasani. It's not the scrambling they like so much, as you suggest. They see a fire and desire to win and they hope that there's enough talent to go along with it because they just haven't seen much fire in Weinke as of yet. They keep hoping they will see it and we did get a small glimpse against NE. Now praying for more. As someone said a few weeks back ... he is the key to the Panthers having success this season. I think we have enough pieces to win this season if he will step up. If he doesn't ... we can look forward to a top 5 pick in the coming draft.

 

>> Fasani looked scared running.

IMO, he doesn't look scared. he looks like he's trying to make a play. needs to learn when to hang and when to bail.

>> Guys like Smith have to really show up when they know they're about to get nailed - something I noticed on the one drop

IMO, he was wanting to turn and run before he caught the ball. He's still pretty inexperienced at WR. Seen lots of improvement in this kid. My guess is that he'll learn quickly and he won't drop many more.

>> and guys like Byrd have to fade off. Face it - Isaac Byrd shouldn't be in contention for that job, and this team should have been able to have gotten rid of him long ago. And yet when all is said and done he's keeping pace with the people the fans think should be "the answer".

IMO, Byrd is an excellent 3rd receiver. Has excellent hands and is willing to run the underneath routes and hang on to the ball. I don't think you're giving him his due. You're being pretty presumptious as to what the "fans" think. My guess is that most fans, along with the coaches, are hoping he will be the answer because they don't see another good option on the roster at this time.

>> Hope they do without Fields. Expecting him not to be there against the Ravens really lessens our chances of containing Lewis. I knew coming in he'd be a guy who wouldnt' be a factor against the pass - but he'd be our other big run stopper. And we're without him for a while.

"Other big run stopper"? By other, do you mean Morgan, Naives, Peppers, Jenkins, Buckner, Rucker or Minter? Defense has looked great against the run and Fields has been just one of many that are playing really well. Jackson, Allen and Witherspoon (and Towns?) give us some pretty decent backups. One of the least of my worries about the team at the moment.

>> One more positive - Peppers did it against a real tackle this time. No more complaining that somebody got by because Juan Valdez' burro was the guy blocking. He was a beast.

yep

>> I really have been unimpressed with Burton.

yep

>> Equally, I've been floored by Jenkins' abilities and am very happy to know we got something out of him this early when some thought he'd be a third or fourth year blossom.

Let's just hope he doesn't fizzle out like he did at the start of last year's regular season. Does this mean that DT is not quite the priority in next year's draft? I thought Buckner player really well against Dallas.

 

>>IMO, Byrd is an excellent 3rd receiver.

He's been a reliable possession guy. A pro. But not a dynamic guy, and that's what we lack. There's some good ones in the draft coming up. This next draft will be top heavy with WRs and QBs.

>>By other, do you mean

I imagine he means Morgan, since we are talking about linebackers. Navies played ok vs Dallas, but Fields is the one that's playing at a high level, and he'll be missed initially. The Raves will be a test, it is a good run blocking line, and Jamal Lewis looks all the way back.


>>Does this mean that DT is not quite the priority in next year's draft? I thought Buckner player really well against Dallas.

Buckner is a FA, is average, and Gilbert is likely gone, as he looked lathargic out there. I imagine DT will still be a need.

 

Yep - I'd say next year's needs, via draft or FA, will be WR, DT, and CB, order of which depends on draft depth.

A couple of days after the loss I feel better. Here's what I've decided:

Hard to have a run game when you've got no receivers. Smith might look good in practice, but look who he's playing against. I'm glad we're making a run at guys like Freeman. We weren't looking to bust the bank, either. I guess Jeffers is done.

The Pats realized our secondary sucked, and went after it. It seems they primarily picked on Cordell Taylor. Tampa, Green Bay, Minnesota, will beat our asses b/c of this. I think our front seven will be able to disrupt most other qbs - Brooks and Vick included.

Hard to say if Weinke's the problem or recevier is - We're thinner this year than we were last.

Where the Fuck is Wesley Walls?

 

well my thinking on the DT is that we already got three great young studs on the DL with a great set of LBs behind them. i would think we could get by with average (with Buckner or some other pickup if we can't keep him) at that position and therefore would not consider it as much as a priority as our offensive line. it bewilders me that as bad as our starting OL looked against NE and also, my understanding, against WA that you're still saying the DT would be a priority over the OL, especially while our DL and LBs have looked so good in the last 2 games.

the Panthers have gone defense in the last 3 drafts. isn't about time to start thinking about getting some good young players for the offense?

well right now and just based on the NE game, my guess is that Tampa, etc. will beat our asses cuz we have no frickin offense. our defense has been dominating in the first half of the last 2 games. our offense has not been able to take advantage of continually be handed the ball in great field position. 13 points against Dallas in the first half with the way our defense was manhandling their offense was poor. 3 points against NE with the way our defense played and the field position we had was pathetic.