Top 15 all time

WHO WON:

DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR 3 YEARS IN A ROW ?


AND

WAS THE SCORING CHAMP THOSE SAME 3 YEARS ?


ONE MAN ....

 

Nobody.

 

Well Kobe really does the same thing. You can't always look at titles for this factor. Kobe has been very fortunate to be with some very strong teams.

Not saying all of these players are better than Kobe, just throwing some top names out there, but I can't come close to putting him in the top 25 just yet. I would say that him winning a title with this current team setup would be a lot more impressive than on his past teams.

 

I'd like to hear what 25 you would have. Just for curiosity.

And titles count IMO in basketball than any other team sport, because one guy can have a big impact on a team.

We are talking about someone who is 10 time All NBA, 10 time All Star, 8 time all defensive team, 3 titles, and shoots 45%, and holds or shares 9 NBA records. I don't really like the guy, but damn he's a stud.

 

You're basing your list on personal & team accomplishments, which is fine. but there is no way you can say Havlicek, Duncan, Olajuwon, etc. were better basketball players than Bryant. Their teams may have accomplished more, but player to player comparisons, they don't stand up. And I don't even like Kobe, but he's a better player than quite a few on that list.

 

Titles can count to a point, but it's hard for one superstar to do it all by himself without a little help. Kobe certainly had that help with his past titles. So I wouldn't discount a player just because he never won a title or just won one, I would consider the teams he has/had surrounding him.

Will work on the 25 person list when I get a little time.

 

I realize there are some here you probably would pick Kobe over as there are probably a few that I didn't list that some would pick over Kobe at this point. Like I said earlier, Kobe will probably have to do a little more than some because of his past issues. I do find it odd that you listed his 45% FG like that was an accomplishment, I guess it is in todays game. I guess for me that would be more of a negative for a top 25 player listing of all time. And not saying he doesn't deserve some of his awards, but he hasn't exactly had as tough of competition like the NBA was several years ago.

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Charles Barkley
Larry Bird
Wilt Chamberlain
Clyde Drexler
Tim Duncan
Julius Erving
Patrick Ewing
Walt Frazier
Kevin Garnett
George Gervin
John Havlicek
Elvin Hayes
Magic Johnson
Michael Jordan
Jerry Lucas
Karl Malone
Moses Malone
Pete Maravich
Steve Nash
Shaquille O'Neal
Hakeem Olajuwon
Oscar Robertson
David Robinson
Bill Russell
John Stockton
Isiah Thomas
Jerry West

 

I'd take Kobe in a game of one on one.

But I have no problem saying that Duncan's career>Kobe's career. Timmy averages a double/double for his career. 23 and 13, plus 3.5 assists.

And generally, unless it is a transcendent player such as Jordan, I'm taking a dominant big man over a dominant perimeter player. That's why I have 6 big men in my top 10.

Havlicek could be lower. He doesn't have anywhere near the dominating career numbers Kobe has, of course he came off the bench for a good portion of it. He did have some years where he scored 27+ per game. But the main reason, on my list, that I have him a tad higher is that he was able to do what Kobe is trying to do. He was the second or third guy, a Manu Ginobli type, and at the end of his career won two titles as the big dog on the team.

 

Well I have to agree with both of you on some points. I guess that's why I said you can't always go by titles won. But also, it's hard to compare a a big man to a SG or SF, the big man just isn't going to be as flashy, but of course the smaller players generally aren't going to be even close in some statistics to the bigger players, blocks, rebounds, FG%.

 

Point of the thread. Lists are cool. People forget about Walt Frazier, he did'nt have gaudy stats, but he could give anything the Knicks needed on a particular night. I think of him as an elite player, while I think of a guy like Drexler as a second tier player, even though Drexler had the better stats.

45% is good for a perimeter player. JH was a 43 percent career shooter. AI is 42%.

And I'm a between the lines kind of guy. Certainly he had some between the lines issues with teammates, he's not a top 25 teammate. But neither was Michael.