This is for all you old sh*ts...

"And I don't think horn players suffered because of the Beatles. Here's a little enlightenment for you: ..etc."

That's enlightenment? Shit math, the numbers of horns involved in the popular idiom after the Beatles pales in comparison to before.
I won't even get into the difference in the electronic format and the accoustic format, synthesizers sounding/replacing horns,
layered recording technique, electronic enhancement to make something shitty sound "good", etc.

 

Maybe I did go overboard there, but I don't think you can blame the Beatles for the move towards different mediums. Even the Beach Boys 'Pet Sounds' got away from everyone had been doing before, and it came out before 'Sgt. Peppers', widely regarded as the most influential album of all time.

Maybe you and I are discussing more than aspect of this subject.

 

"Maybe I did go overboard there, but I don't think you can blame the Beatles for the move towards different mediums. Even the Beach Boys 'Pet Sounds' got away......."

mathmajors, ...don't know exactly what you mean by "mediums."
Would you care to explain, please?

Anyhow, when I say that the Beatles changed a lot of stuff in pop music, I think I'm being a tad unfair by "blaming"/using them as a scapegoat. I think the changes were bound to happen and they just coincidentally happened about the same time as the bugs.
The Beatles did bring an unheard of before popularity of guitar groups.
And, unheard of LOUD f***ing volume.

BTW: I rarely listen to vocal music of any kind.

 

>>And, unheard of LOUD f***ing volume.

Beatles weren't that loud. They were using the same basic stuff that Chuck Berry was using before them.

One of the reasons they stoped playing live was their audience was louder than their music. That, and it's kind of hard to play Ellenor Rigby live back then without an orchestra.

It was, IMO, when Dylan went electric that opened the way for the Hendrixes of the world.

I like jazz. Not Kenny G crap, more organic stuff. I've gotten into it backwards, cutting edge, free jazz, Sun Ra, Micheal Ray, MMW, that sort of stuff, before even listening to Coltrane. The thing is, more horn players would have come out better if they'd taken the same approach Miles did (and most eventually followed). Move forward, adapt. Can't beat em, join em, and then beat em. Too much of jazz was being rehashed, and Miles knew it. He caught hell from purists at the time, but any jazz that has been worth listening to in the past 25 years has followed in his footsteps.

But jazz wasn't going to be what your thinking of, and I'm kind of glad. Most of the vocal, poppy kind of jazz sounds like warmed over R&B to me. Because real jazz, to me, isn't mainstream. Because it's not folk music. That was the edge Rock had, it was a blend of folk, country, and blues, which are all really folk music at their cores.

 

'mediums' was the first word that came to mind. I must be misusing it if you don't know it.

How about this: but I don't think you can blame the Beatles for the move towards different ways of making music.

That's what I meant.

 

"Beatles weren't that loud. They were using the same basic stuff that Chuck Berry was using before them."

I stand corrected. I'll take your word for it.

I like what I call "borderline jazz." Jazz that has a freedom obtained through a great deal of knowledge, listening and experience. Standards and standard jazz tunes treated with hip shit like reharmonizations, and hard swing, floating time;
like Trane did[up to Ascensions], Mingus, Paul Bley, Joe Lovano.
I don't care for smooth jazz, but don't fault a guy for doing what he can, even though in my eyes it sucks.
Now, Kenny G is another story; i.e. his overdubbing Louie's tune.
I cannot respect him.

 

My favorite jazz act of the last few years is Karl Denson's Tiny Universe. More of a fusion artist, I know, but the basic tension and release he works with is straight out of modal jazz. First saw him in New Orleans a few years ago. Check him out, particuarly if you like Ascentions era Coltrane.

I don't mind Lavano in the trio, in fact Trio Fascination is damn good.

 

I'm 22, which clearly is not an old shit. I went to see George Jones Friday night and it was a dern' tootin' good show. In fact, most of my music is old country from Hank Williams to Charly Freakin' Pride. I'm not an old shit, but damn if I don't listen to old shit music.

 

Did you see him sing the National Anthem at the race last Sunday?

 

Yes I did Math. I was actually right in front of the stage. He sang some memorial song too. But, he was never singing. It was easily the worst lip sync I've ever seen in my life. I felt bad for the Possum. He looked very uncomfortable in that situation.