The 'gay vs the Bible' debate......

True, but the temptation only becomes a sin if the person being tempted allows it to lead them astray.

I totally agree.

We're mixing Biblical standards with societal labels. "Recovering" can be a facade. I know, because I've worn that mask before, and I know others who have as well. Maybe the difference is whether or not the person is truly repentant. The catch, of course, is that there's no way to tell absolutely from the outside looking in if that's true.

 

call it recovering, call it healed, call it saved....that's not my point....point is they are all the same....they are lusts or desires that we have acted on in the past....

as far as homosexuality being the same as a disability (cripple) that's just sick. homosexuality is a choice. it's a choice to do something that is immoral....just like stealing is choice and drinking is a choice.

 

riddel, you seem readily available to give your insight on the topic. What makes you so knowledgeable about homosexuality? have you fought those feelings in the past? Have a sibling you watched fight it? Studied it in college? Researched it?

Or are you simply an Average Joe giving your .02$ worth?

If you've never lived it, you don't know squat about it. Try sitting in Sunday School when you are so young your feet don't even reach the floor yet and have religion screamed into you and wonder why such a loving God would allow you to have a crush on the boy next door. Then for the next 10 years, try to ignore those 'crushes.' Then date and have sex with women... knowing all you wanted to do was get away from her as soon as possible and keep thinking if you did it enough that you'd like it? Wonder why the smell of sex with a female made you sick, the sounds... her moans... her breasts.... they physically made you nauseated. 5 years later imagine still not liking it, but still have those crushes but knowing what was 'normal' to you was seen as the unspeakable sin. .... seriously man... you don't know shit.

 

I know that everything you described was lust and that you allowed it to over come you. Now you justify it by saying it's an uncontrollable urge. Sounds alot like any other addiction. But, no I don't know what it's like to lust after a guy. I do know what it's like to lust after a drug or a woman and allowing myself to be swallowed up by it until I acted. There is nothing normal about what I described either.

Don't know where you are getting hung up? Is it the fact that homosexuality is now being justified in the world as a handicap that you are born with? Trust me every red blooded man is born with the desire to get drunk and laid as much as they can. I struggle everyday still with those issues. I really don't see how homosexuality is any different than any other immoral urge?

I know it's easy for you to tell me I don't understand and leave it at that, but that's another way you justify your actions. By the way, I know plenty of queers and none of them are satisfied with their lives. They always want to know why. It's the same reason I found no real satisfaction in getting drunk and laid....IT'S WRONG!

sorry....that's all for me.

 

I seriously doubt a 6 year old knows what lust is.

You mentally grouping everyone into an addiction of some sort is probably normal for you at this stance. I see it in my patients every day. Hopefully by the time you have worked the 12th step, this will have changed.

 

I think you have to be careful with the lust concept, riddel. Yes, sexual desires can lead to sin. But sex within a committed, monogamous relationship is not sinful or destructive. Desiring after a woman that is married to someone else, and giving into that lust, can be damaging in a number of ways to a number of people.

But those two concepts, I believe, should also extend to homosexual relationships. A committed, monogamous homosexual relationship can be a vehicle for healthy sexual fulfilment, whereas "cheating" can be just as damaging in homosexual relationships as in heterosexual relationships.

Sexual fulfiment is a basic human need. But relationships that provide a sense of belonging and trust are also very important to a healthy sense of self.

 

all six year old boys like other boys better than girls. that's pretty normal.

i'm simply trying to stay on topic. gay vs. the Bible. never said homosexuality is an addiction. i said it is a perversion or lust. that's all. you are still trying to justify it. now you are trying to dismiss me with the 12th step.

why do you care what people think? if you are ok with your actions then why defend them? when i was out getting blasted and hanging with strippers i never tried to defend it or hide it. i just did what i wanted until my actions ate me alive inside and i was forced to change.

 

we are talking about gay vs. bible.

by the way sex outside of marriage is just as wrong as sex with the same sex partner.

i'm not telling fred he is more wrong than you are for having sexual relations outside of marriage. its all wrong. that's my point. if you are talking about the bible then read it and you will see that it's wrong.

having a meaningful relationship with a same sex person is very possible without any lust or sex. they call them best friends. it's when you allow yourself to want something you are not suppose to want and act on it that you cross the line.

 

Though it's been a relatively civil conversation, it may still be helpful to remember the message of Romans 14: