The 'gay vs the Bible' debate......

So have I. In matters of such importance especially, I'm a firm believer (no pun intended) in questioning everything. I literally spent years doing exactly that before making a choice about faith.

 

At the risk of beating a dead horse, the "prevailing attitude" of superiority you're referring to is neither Biblical nor Christian. To be like Christ is to be humble. The air of (predominantly moral) superiority the Religious Right has adopted is an abomination -- a twisting of Scripture mixed with politics and fear.

I'll say it then.

Actually, God knows we aren't.

Agreed. Whether it's real or perceived, intentional or not, that arrogance closes doors of opportunity and kills evangelistic efforts faster than anything else I've ever seen or heard of.

 

:standingovationsmilie:

 

I do not mean to say that political efforts of christians are not worthwhile. I think christians have a responsibility in a democracy to speak out and vote their morality. At the same time though I can see where it turns off some who might otherwise be more accepting of the gospel. I am not sure what the best answer to that. I suppose you have to do the best you can and leave it to God to draw the lost to him.

 

"'Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?' Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.'" -- Matthew 22:36-40

 

That 'need' they feel is from their own insecurities, not from their faith. I realize that doesn't change the effect their actions have, though.

 

i'm not christian and my wife and i were married in a christian chapel. in fact, we're going to have our son baptized there as well (my wife's idea, obviously). i'm actually a bit wary of the idea because i don't want to falsely represent myself to the church. i suspect, tho, that it's more a business thing than a religious thing with them, so i'm guessing the religious requirements are minimal.

 

I don't know about the wedding part, but for the baptism it doesn't matter whether or not you worship Mickey Mouse.

The baptism is for your son.

 

The words don't particularly matter. It isn't important if you use the Biblical "lost", or sinner or depraved fat guy in a bad suit. The entire idea that someone is there to help "save" you can be insulting in and of itself. I'm sorry I haven't communicated that clearly enough and folks got hung up on save.

It's the language and attitude, however heartfelt, Christlike, and humble it may be that

"I'm here to fix you because you're broken."

"I'm broken?

"Trust me, the Bible says you're broken and I'm here to set you on the path to the great mechanic that can patch up up."

"I don't feel broken."

"Sorry, you are."

"Really?"

"Yep."

"How?"

"You like to /have sex with other of your gender/people you aren't married to/you drink too much/don't go to church/etc."

"That's my choice. I'm content and have a good life"

"Doesn't matter. I've got to fix you."

"FTFO"

 

I think the terms "lost" and "saved" are very accurate descriptions of the spiritual state of people. But I rarely ever use them when talking to people who aren't Christians, specifically because of the negative connotation they have to those who don't understand the spirit behind them. In evangelism, as in so many other arenas, perception is reality for those who are unfamiliar with true Christianity.