The 'gay vs the Bible' debate......

This is going really well, guys. Thank you. :xyzthumbs

 

I do not know too many if any openly gay people. If they are not openly gay and not a flamer then I do not suppose I would know if they were gay or not and would therefore not be able to comment on how I treated them due to their gayness.....

Fred Phelps is one of those "gays should die" type guys? I have never said that nor have I ever supported anyone who says that. I was in a service one time where a preacher, not at my church, said something like that and I made sure that my kids knew that I did not agree with that and thought the preacher was wrong. As you may know I tend to speak my mind whether anyone likes it or not and I will tell anyone I meet that thinks it is ok to use violence against gays that I disagree. I am not really sure what I could do beyond that. I do not have a ministry and I support spreading the gospel by supporting my church. The church I support, while teaching homosexuality is a sin, does not ever support violence towards homosexuals. Quite the opposite actually, it teaches that God loves every one and that you should not look down on any sinners for if not for God's grace you could be in that situation. One of the members at my church is a preacher who goes to prisons and minsiters to the inmates. I am certain he does not ask that only the straight prisoners be allowed to hear his message.

I heard a sermon years ago and the preacher told a story that has stuck with me. He said he was reading a story about child pornographers. He was angered by the story and said to God, why do you not just kill them? He said he felt like God answered him by saying "I am being good to them like I was good to you by letting you live as long as you did as a sinner before you got saved". I try to remember that and though I may often forget or fall short of living in a manner that reflects the fact that I am only a sinner I do aspire to keep that attitude towards all.

God loves everyone including gay people. God wants everyone to come to him. God wants all of us to repent of our sins. No one has the power to stop being sinner but everyone has the power to feel contrition and ask forgiveness.

Maybe none of that makes sense to you but I am trying to honest and not sound condescending.

 

So if there are versus in the bible that tell us being gay is wrong, then how do you justify you being correct and still believe in the bible?

OR are those the versus that you are saying were changed?

 

I know this wasn't addressed to me, but along the same lines. I am a christian and believe what the bible tells us. I of course don't know everything in the bible, but from what I have read it says being gay is wrong. Yes, hate the sin and not the sinner is my motto, because ALL christians have sinned and will continue to sin.

I for one like Builder, but I don't have to agree with everything about him in order to like or dislike him. I just think he is a good guy and makes sense about a lot of things.

I guess what I am asking then, what scriptures tell us that being gay is ok or nothing wrong with it?

 

I'm not trying to say The Bible says it is right. But judgement is not your job, or mine, or Thelts. The job of a Christian is to show His love thru them; not condemn.

As far as Builder- if Christians are running people away from God and if you, as a Christian, sit back and watch it while doing nothing about it- aren't you just as guilty?


And yes I probably sound bitter and angry, but my intensions are to make you look at the topic of homosexuality with different eyes and from a different point of view- not to make you change your mind.

 

Aren't you the guy making a living by casting lots?

 

I think I can sum up my feelings in this little quote I found.

 

You're not helping!

:headslap

 

OK, I guess I misread something somewhere, so my apologies if so.

Also, I totally agree that it isn't ANY christians place to judge or condemn if it is something that the bible says is wrong with a few exceptions. The Bible does state that we are to up the Laws of the Land. Now of course there are some things according to the Bible we shouldn't do, but is completely legal under man's law.

I also agree that there are a lot of christians that drive other christians/non-christians away because of what they do. I have gone to churches in the past and left that church for these very reasons.

I will use Builder as an example only because I have talked to him in a few threads on here, and if he wishes me to not, or that I say anything out of character please let me know, but just using him as an example because we both know him from here.

Like I said before I like Builder, although I don't agree with part of his lifestyles because of what I interpret from the Bible. But if we were friends in real life (which I have friends that are gay) I would support him in every part of his life and be there for him. Would I go out of my way to support him in something that I think he is doing that I think is wrong? No, not at all! But say he has a relationship with another man, which I don't agree with, but came to me because of relationship problems, I would do my best to help him and separate that from my beliefs, because he is my friend.

I am not sure what way you are wanting me to look at homosexuality differently than how I do now? Please explain.

We all do things wrong according to the Bible, myself included. But as I grow as a christian, sometimes good and sometimes bad, I do change my views on somethings as I learn more. I usually try not to take a persons word for it as in because "The Bible said so", but usually like to read scriptures where somebody gets their information and decide for myself. I do know two people can read the same verse and get different meanings from them.

 

That's only if they are a dook fan!