The 'gay vs the Bible' debate......

HB, I removed the last line of the above post and will try to move it back to R&S. But I think I need to stay out of the thread from this point on.

 

The key word in your premise is Christian. And I'm not talking about someone who goes through the motions on Sunday mornings and lives by his own rules the rest of the week. For a Christian, there are more and better options available than the ones you listed.

E. Seek God's help, continuously and earnestly. When a Christian asks God for help to do things within His will, powerful things can happen. Supernatural things can, and have happened. When a Christian prays, he's tapping into an unlimited source of both love and power.

F. Surround yourself with other Christians who are willing to help you overcome your same sex desires through support and accountability. It's a mental battle as much as physiological, and having a support network is essential to overcoming anything so powerful.

G. Seek whatever clinical help is needed. If the APA is correct and homosexuality is a psychological condition, logic follows that a psychologist needs to be involved at some point in the process.

Again, a Christian is someone who has chosen God's way over his own, and trusting Him with everything he's got, even when he doesn't understand the reasons behind it. It's not about what society says, it's about what God says. Christianity begins and ends with the individual dealing one-on-one with God. He is the only one a Christian needs to be concerned with pleasing, and when a Christian lives his life inline with God's will, he will be a loving, kind and generous person, so all other relationships fall into place.

 

Matthew 5:22

NIV: But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the Sanhedrin…

NASB: But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, ‘You good-for-nothing,’ shall be guilty before the supreme court…

KJV: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council…


The phrase "without a cause" is, IMO, an attempt to add a loophole in Jesus' teaching. It's not found in any of the other translations I've ever seen.

 

Except that the Bishop's Bible was already deemed inadequate in it's integity, which is why the king ordered a brand new translation to be done in the first place. If it was flawed, it shouldn't have been included at all, let alone allowed to be the foundation of the new translation. The other thing that bothers me about that is that it's the "Bishops' Bible". The medieval Catholic church doesn't have the best track record when it comes to being faithful to Christian doctrine. Too much politics and too many ulterior motives and private agendas were flowing in and out of the highest levels of the church during that time for my taste.

I don't. But the red flag for me on that issue is both the length of time and the number of revisions that took place. If you're trying to get at the truth, it shouldn't take over 100 years to work it out, especially if the original texts are close at hand in merry old Oxford. But neither the church nor the throne was above 'bending the rules' to suit their agendas, and that includes Christian doctrine.

Like I said before, it's subtle. Much of it is not much more than suspicion, to be honest. But there are enough good translations available today that agree with each other to make me feel quite comfortable with leaving the KJV on the shelf.

 

Eric- I don't think you get it. Homosexuality is not a 'flaw' that you need a support group's help to overcome.

We were made this way for a reason. What that reason is; I have no clue. But nothing happens at random. I seriously believe in the 'Take the hand of cards you were dealt and play them the best you can' way of thinking.

 

please move this back to TGB so I can respond

 

And that is the fundamental difference in our viewpoints. It is not about hate or controlling the actions of others. It is about what you believe. I and most christians believe that it is a flaw. Prehaps we should try to learn to disagree and not call each other nazis or child molestors or what have you.

 

Fred, I'm not 100% sure how or why gay people are gay. I've heard evidence from gay and straight, spiritual and secular. What I've conveyed in this and other threads is what I've heard from other people, and a small amount of my own guesswork -- certainly not enough to hang my hat on. The one thing I'm certain of is that nobody is absolutely certain how or why it happens. All anyone has are educated theories.

But honestly I don't feel it's my place, and certainly not my passion to figure that out. If a Christian is gay and wants to change, I'll do whatever I can to help him. If he doesn't, I'll still show them the love, kindness, and hope of Christ and not stand in judgment over him -- regardless of whether he's a believer or not. The Bible says, and I believe with all my heart, that's what Jesus would have me do, so I'll stick to that and let Him handle the rest.

I totally agree. Where we might disagree is how each of us defines "best", but that's largely a subjective term anyway.

 

when I read, "as little altered as the truth of the original will permit", I understand that to mean that they went back to the textus receptus as the original and not the bishops bible. So as long as the bishops bible was faithful to the original then they used it. Where it wasn't they changed it. I suspect it was to keep the bible in the vernacular of the day (much like today's modern translations).

I know I probably sound like a "KJV is the real bible" kind of person, but I'm not. I own several translations and use them all. I just don't think it's correct to say that it's inferior, especially after hundreds of years of being relied upon by some of the greatest teachers and preachers of the gospel the world has ever known.

 

the only 'evidence' you will hear from a straight person is "The Bible says so." My 'evidence' comes from personal experience.

And as far as 'changing' from gay to straight, that's bull. I can paint myself black, but deep down, I'm still white. It's much easier to fake it than to continue to be honest with yourself and the world. And these 'converted' straight people probably just got tired of doing this :banginghe and gave in. You can only be told you're going to hell so long before it gets the best of you.