The Episcopal Church

That's the cool thing about Christianity -- Jesus came for all the dregs of society who couldn't make it on their own.

 

episcopal hasn't been the same since it bulked up and left saturday night live.

 

I am seriously considering an Episcopal church for my daughter instead of Baptist as I was raised.

I agree with more of their beliefs than the ones I was raised with. At least if the Episcopals don't know the answer- they'll reason it out to make it sound good. The only thing I have heard is they are serious about their donations and strive to please those with money. That could just be one particular church though and not the entire throng.

 

"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge..." --Proverbs 1:7

 

Such as?

And that appeals to you? If I ask a question and the person I'm asking doesn't know the answer, I'd much rather them tell me the truth than make up something that sounds good, especially regarding spiritual matters.

 

I know you scratch your head at my double talk sometimes... Ohhh if you had only been raised in the church where I was raised. Scared.....preachers banging the pulpit, screaming, telling us all we were going to hell. I sat at the East window in the mornings til the Sun rose at home, thinking the pink sky was the second coming and I was doomed to hell from the time I was about 9-12.

Episcopals teach love and acceptance. They turn no one away and I believe in that. God is love, not fear.

I was speaking of being a child (adolescent) and asking questions of the elders in my church etc.... The answers were always the same. If you dont' want to go to hell, don't think evil thoughts. (ok, I'm thinking evil now cause you said not to). If you don't want to go to hell, don't lie- (ok well it's a lie that I told my friend her hair was pretty)... and on and on. I do NOT want Zoe being raiased to fear God in a way that makes her think she could never be good enough for his grace and instill eternal guilt in her conscience. Although I realize none of us are good enough, it's important to me that she never confuses her normal feelings, thoughts etc.. with being damned to hell.

 

faster does not an outdrinker make

 

Hell send her to catholic school, after the penguins, god is a cinch.

 

So do I. And any church teaching and living out Biblical principles should be teaching love and acceptance and greeting anyone who walks through their doors with open arms. That's not a denominational thing, that's a Bible thing. It's a Jesus thing. And it's one of the many things I observed and have observed in my own church (which, by the way, is technically Southern Baptist).

Here's where I have to disagree. God is love and fear. The Bible teaches in both the Old and New Testaments to fear God. In fact, it goes so far as to call anyone who doesn't fear God a fool (Proverbs). Jesus Himself told His own disciples to fear God and nothing else on this earth.

Jesus didn't minister by 'powering up' on people, but He taught more about hell than He did heaven. There is a huge difference between being ungodly and being worthless. Preachers like the one you mentioned from your childhood haven't figured that difference out yet, and God promises to hold them accountable for the damage they have caused. On the other hand, preachers who minister as Jesus did -- who can show people their sin and offer them hope and acceptance at the same time -- they are the doorway to finding the kind of great life God wants all of us to live.

That's manipulation, not ministry. They were right, in a sense -- to experience our best life, we do have to gain control over our thoughts, and it ain't easy. The point they were probably trying to make is that it only takes one sin to separate you from God. They were probably trying to impress on you your need for God's grace and forgiveness. Of course, if that wasn't your question, it didn't do much good. Regardless, it sounds like they did a terrible job communicating the message anyway.

Okay, let me try to explain this without screwing it up. It's actually good for non-Christians to feel guilty, if the guilt comes from comparing their own lives to the standards of the Bible and realizing they don't measure up. That's the motivation we all need to ask for the forgiveness and grace Jesus offers.

Now, once that offer has been accepted, there is no longer any reason to beat ourselves up over our past. The guilt of the past becomes thanksgiving in the present. Make sense? And the cycle continues -- we make mistakes, we make amends with God and anyone we might have hurt, pay whatever penalty our actions merit, receive God's forgiveness, learn from the experience and move on. It's a continuous process of turning bad experiences and decisions into life-affirming positive lessons.

Probably the hardest thing a Christian has to learn is that the Christian life is anything but "normal". Our normal-ness -- thoughts, feelings, actions -- is largely what led to our being motivated to seek out God to begin with. When you ask Jesus to be your Lord and Savior, you have to leave normal behind. Otherwise you're just spinning your wheels, going nowhere. You don't grow spiritually, your life doesn't change, and your salvation comes into question because you'll never develop a relationship with God.

 

Very good points Hasbeens, thanks for the time you took to answer those and give me your thoughts/ideas on them.

Now... I'm sure it's been asked. The fear question. ... Are you only a Christian because you fear God or is it a choice that makes for a better life here or both?
The general idea of my raising was I should fear God, not because the fear of hell but the fear that God would bring horrible things to me if I were not a Christian. The scripture says to fear God, but I don't think it means to fear him to the point of being afraid to learn, question or think. I believe that is what he intended.