Should McGwire be in the Hall?

Didn't he hit 49 homers in 1987 when he was a stick?

He always had the home run power, the question should be would he physically have been able to play many years without help? (he did admit when the Andro was in his locker he used it to recover from workouts and injury)

 

- You get frustrated too easily. Andro was not illegal and when it became on the drug list it was well documented that he stopped.

- If it had been anyone other than Canseco. Are you saying that Jose Canseco would not have a motivation to name names to push his book? He's scum...is he right? who knows? it's tough to give a man with his character any credibility.

If that is the case, then I bow to your conclusion. :notworthy: I just haven't heard anybody come out and say that.

exactly

True...but Drs. can't even agree amongst themselves to the benefit or danger of taking creatine, particularly among HS kids. And isn't the purpose of this product to enhance one's performance?

You're right about this. I feel uncomfortable defending Mark McGwire, when my concern and problem about this issue is the hypocracy with the baseball executives, the player association and the owners purposely and selfishly ignoring (and some execs have said encouraged) the steroid usage because it was good for baseball attendance. But, I'm equally uncomfortable convicting a guy on circumstantial evidence and innuendo.

Since you used an anology, I will too. It's like the King and all his men using their warriors as gladiators and when they became old...fed them to the Lions. And the Gladiators were too stupid to understand.

Collin- That Dave Chapelle analogy made me laugh..good one!

 

Do you have any idea how annoying it is to be asked questions you have already answered? Read the thread again, chief, because I already pointed out that Canseco says he provided McGwire with steroids during his rookie season, and I pointed out that McGwire played at USC where the steroid culture was certainly already present by that point. Moreover, look at a picture of him back then. He was already huge, so I have no idea where you got the idea that he was a stick.

No kidding. Sometimes I wish I was like the rest of the world that seemingly isn't bothered by incorrect comments, but I'm just wired differently. When I read something dumb, my blood pressure skyrockets.

Of course Andro violated the rules, even if it wasn't specifically spelled out as such. Like I said, if some chemist invents something tomorrow that gives players an unfair advantage, we don't have to wait for a sport to officially ban it to know that it's still cheating.

Where is this documentation?

You're repeating things people said about Canseco initially, when people just assumed he was full of crap. The problem there is that we've gotten more and more evidence that Canseco was telling the truth all along.

Exactly how long will it take you to realize that this is not a court of law? The part that frustrates me is that you'll probably realize the truth eventually. It might take you a good while to reconcile what is already obvious to me, and I'm really trying to be patient. In any case, circumstantial evidence is all we need. We have witnesses saying that McGwire used, we have McGwire refusing to say that he didn't, and we have overwhelming physical evidence showing it as well. Like I said, we only have circumstantial evidence that Michael Jackson has had plastic surgery, but do you plan to insult my intelligence and yours by pretending that we don't know if he has?

The purpose of creatine and other supplements is to enhance the effects of working out. It doesn't and cannot make the body superior to its natural limits, it just helps you get there faster. Steroids can make you far, far stronger than you could ever naturally be even if you spent your life lifting weights.

Stop being concerned with their hypocrisy and start being concerned with your own. You're not defending McGwire because other people weren't hard enough on him in the past. Ask yourself why you are. I'm not implying anything in particular because I have no idea what your reasoning would be, but clearly there is a reason why you're defending a known cheater.

 

he's got you there collin

 

No, and your own pictures prove you wrong. Nowhere in those pictures does he look like "a stick." He's already as muscular as Canseco at that point, who not only says that he was providing McGwire with steroids in his rookie season but was already using himself as well. You're getting confused by the fact that he got even bigger later, which isn't relevant to the question. You tried to say that he was clean in '87 and you were wrong. Yes, he got much bigger later just as Canseco did, but they were both using throughout that period.