setback for atheists

I don't know if I agree with that. I still see, via the sentence structure and punctuation, that the allegiance being pledged is to the republic. The statement that the republic is "under God" is stated as a matter of fact, not allegiance.

Now I can see where atheists could be motivated to contest that statement, but I don't see the merit of the argument being made that reciting the pledge means one has to believe in God to be an American.

 

Great point.

 

not sure what you mean by this. i'm simply trying to be clear in what i think is appropriate and what i think is inappropriate. are you saying that a teacher reciting the pledge is not telling the children in her class that god comes before the nation in some aspects?

and? it's your right to say it. i don't care. it's your right to tell people you believe it. i wouldn't mind a teacher saying she agrees with it, tho i'd rather she didn't go there. a teacher is an authority figure. everything she says is supposed to be adhered to by the students in her class. no questions. i think it's wrong for a teacher to delve into religion. i don't mind a history lesson that talks about what other people believed, unless i guess it gets a bit slanted -- like all she ever teaches is about mormons, for example.

it's close enough for me. as for the free exercise issue, like ALL rights, there are limitations. we all recognize that schools are special places -- your 2nd ammendment right is revoked in school zones, your free speech right is curtailed (particularly if you're a student there), etc. why be surprised that free worship would also be curtailed in school?

 

So, when is your right to "separate church and state" limited?

 

i'm not saying that one has to believe in god to be an american. i'm saying that the pledge makes the statement that our country is "under god". i take this to mean that god comes first in some way. that god is more important. that our country owes something to god, and thus WE owe something to god.

i don't care if people believe this, i just don't want a public figure of authority to tell people they have authority over that this is "a matter of fact" (as you suggest). it's a matter of belief and i don't like teachers teaching belief systems.

 

i wish that was a right.

 

Oooops.....guess that argument only works when you agree with what is being limited.

 

??????????

 

Fair enough.

 

i wish that there was a seperation of church and state enumerated in the bill of rights.

then we wouldn't have "in god we trust" on our money, the president wouldnt' say "god bless america" or even mention god, etc.

i guess my freedom FROM religion is limited by your freedom to worship, if you're looking for a limit to my rights.