Running Red Sox thread

Like I said, Matzusaka was an obvious exception and I believed at the time that he represented an overall change. Passing on Gagne because of a couple million dollars and then pulling out of this Helton deal just looks like more of the same, however. Really, what was the reason not to sign Gagne? They're going into the season with a major question mark at closer because Epstein said that the Rangers' $6 million was too much for him to match.

I'm the one who repeatedly pointed out that Helton has declined with comments such as: "His power is obviously not what it once was, but he's still one of the best hitters in the game."

Yes, he is, which I've said repeatedly, but Helton wouldn't even be on the trading block if not for that contract. Boston can certainly afford to absorb it more than Colorado can, and while Helton's no MVP-candidate anymore, he's an ideal #2 or #3 hitter who can work pitchers and regularly get on base in front of the team's big bats.

So which is it? First you said that taking on Helton's contract would be "Yankee-like" in their spending habits, then you claimed that Helton would be a bargain under his current compensation, and now you're saying he'd be overpaid. It would be cool if you could keep your story straight for at least a couple of posts in a row. Also, the Red Sox refused to give up either Delcarmen or Hansen, so it's not as if the trade hinged on giving up both.


vpkozel:

But you don't even like Delcarmen, and you've already got too many relievers under contract to fit in one bullpen. I agree that Helton is unworthy of his contract, but a team like Boston can easily absorb that and there's no question that even his current level of production would be a major boon to the lineup. Todd Helton is one of only four players to have an OBP above .400 in each of the last three seasons (the others were Albert Pujols, Lance Berkman, and Travis Hafner).

Honestly the Gagne thing boggles my mind more than this Helton issue, but there still seems to be a pattern of not willing to take on additional money in most situations. Matsuzaka was an exception, but there are more examples to the contrary, which is odd for a team as rich in resources as the Red Sox.

 

don't be such a dope. Getting Helton for $8 million would be a bargain. Doesn't change my contention that, for the stats he's putting up and probably will put up in the next five years, he'll be overpaid if you consider the full amount of his contract. The Yankee-like comment was obviously with regard to filling the roster with free agents and players acquired in trade. The sox, sadly, are already there so I'd prefer they hold onto some of their homegrown players. Is that so hard for you to comprehend?

still ignoring Drew and Lugo, I see. Not to mention the huge amount they're still paying Manny Ramirez. They could let Schilling walk after this year and hand his spot to Lester, but I have a feeling they'll cough up $13 million for one more year. It's nice how selective you are when making you "argument."

 

True, I forgot about Drew. How in the world does anyone justify giving $70 million to Drew and then pass on Gagne and Helton over a couple of extra millions? I agree with vpkozel, I don't understand what that front office is thinking.

 

drew fills a need in RF, has comparable HR and RBI numbers and the sox give up nothing. don't understand your hard-on for Gagne. the guy's damaged goods.


do you understands what the O's front office is doing?

 

Except $70 million, and please stop pretending that Manny Delcarmen is anything worth saving. It's ridiculous to talk about how bad the guy is and then pretend he's some untradable prospect just because you want to disagree with me. Regarding Drew, he's a gifted player but he has no heart, and is injured more often than any other player. And while he's certainly a much better RF option than Wily Mo Pena, why did Boston trade for him if he wasn't supposed to start? Plus you have Hinske, so it's not like you were just forced to sign Drew, the front office decided to throw all that money at him.

Not really. The nerve damage that kept him out last season was not a persistent condition. Surgery corrected it, so he should be 100% fine. Of course, you're always nervous about someone who has missed two seasons, but he's worth the risk especially considering that closer is the one actual need that Boston had.

Not always. They obviously overpaid for relief pitchers, but I actually like the move not only because it should help the team get to .500, but because relief pitchers are the easiest commodity to trade. So if a team needs someone we signed, we can turn right around and deal them for a quality prospect. Granted, I'd much rather be in contention for a division title but that's not realistically going to happen.

 

sounds like this debate is over until the all-star break. then it'll be "I told you so" time.

good luck

 

Foulke is calling it quits. I still say that the Sox should pay him a million bucks a year until he dies. No way 2004 happens without him basically ruining his career.

 

If Foulke gets a million, then Schill gets 10 a year. Foulke always had injury problems. I think he juiced. But oh well, he's a douchebag.

 

What the fuck are you talking about?

1998 25 CHW AL 3 2 54
1999 26 CHW AL 3 3 67
2000 27 CHW AL 3 1 72
2001 28 CHW AL 4 9 72
2002 29 CHW AL 2 4 65
2003 30 OAK AL 9 1 72
2004 31 BOS AL 5 3 72

 

what is that second column, the numbers 25 and on? Foulke lost his closer role in 2002 with the White Sox, which is why they dumped him to the A's. He all of a sudden only had 11 saves. He had an amazing 2004 playoffs, but he evened it out with his mysterious injuries he couldn't recover from and not being able to crack 86 mph for all of 2005 through August 2006. He juiced, he's another Gagne.

If he hadn't made the "7 dollar an hour Burger King workers" about the Fenway fans or not tried to divide the clubhouse because Papelbon stole his job last year, I met let sleeping dogs lie. Or that little tantrum in the dugout when he was getting booed. But he should get just as much suspicsion about roids as McGwire and Bonds, IMO.