Running Red Sox thread

pffffffffffffffffft


thank god. the sox are already too Yankee-like in their spending habits. Youkilis and Predroia will be the only home-grown starting position players next year.

 

Groomed for a return
By Eric Wilbur, Boston.com Staff

I wish Theo Epstein's dad weren't kidding about his son being married at Nathan's hot dog stand. At the very least, I would have had a standard for wanting to check out Flo's Clam Shack when the wife brings up any future renewal of vows. But, who am I to say there isn't also something very romantic about saying "I do" amid images of Takeru Kobayashi stuffing his face with 50 wieners?

Now that the honeymoon is over though, Red Sox fans have some advice. And it doesn't involve refusing to surrender the big screen for "One Tree Hill" any time a game is on, which, general manager of the team or not, you're going to have to do at some point.

"Congrats Theo and Mrs. Theo..." one poster writes on a Boston.com message board of congratulations. "NOW LETS GET GOING ON SIGNING CLEMENS."

Sure. As if it were that easy.

In case you haven't heard any of the 43 times he's said so this winter, Roger Clemens is unsure if he is going to pitch in 2007, which means he will assuredly be back on the mound come summertime. At this point, I'm convinced that the man will never retire, that he’ll hold his annual mercenary sweepstakes for top dollar until a team won't dish out millions of dollars for his three months of service. Once the Red Sox, Yankees, and Astros aren't interested, it'll be a discounted rate for everybody else. And Tom Hicks might finally get his man.

Why Clemens would leave the cushy situation he has in Houston is beyond me, but here's a look at each of the contenders:

Houston: Clemens has enjoyed the privilege of not having to travel on road trips on which he isn't pitching, can commute to Katy without any hassle, and now gets the added bonus of pitching to his son, Koby, whom the Astros could simply commit to the major league roster to assure they land the 44-year old again. On the other hand, buddy Andy Pettitte jumped ship to the Yankees, a move all New Yorkers are assuming means Clemens will be pitching in the Bronx this summer.

New York Yankees: Is it possible to blow up a story more about nothing than last week's announcement that Yankees second baseman Robinson Cano was surrendering his No. 22 in case Clemens might want to reclaim his old digits with the team? It must be inevitable then. How could Clemens want to return to his plush life in Texas when he can wear No. 22 again? What's ironic is that this ploy is nothing more than an attempt to bring New York on some sort of more even playing field with the Red Sox, who have never given out his old No. 21, never mind to some kid.

Boston: Debbie would get to check out Shopper's World again. OK, there's more than that, obviously. There is no question that a Clemens return to Boston would have significant financial windfall for the Red Sox, the reason they're willing to pay him $21 million to come to Boston this year. Imagine the influx of T-shirts and jerseys they'll sell alone. If I'm a vendor, I guarantee a 7-1 sales ratio over both J.D. Drew and Julio Lugo merchandise, and that's only because I like to lowball so I look good in the end.

On the field, while there has to be some concern about his not having pitched in the American League since 2003, the bottom line is the man is still dominant in the lesser National League. Maybe his ERA goes up a whole run in a switch to leagues, which would make it 3.30 from last year's 2.30. And all Epstein needs to do is pull out the roster and ask Clemens to show him the holes in the lineup. Even if he does ask, "Who's this Pedroia kid?" it's all still sure to be very persuasive. Heck, he might even win more games than the seven he won last season with the enigmatic offense the Astros trot out there nightly, one that is losing Jeff Bagwell.

If Clemens wants to win a title this season, his best shot is not in Houston. It's in New York or Boston. Duh.

Maybe we're all being a bit provincial when we pine for a Clemens return to his roots, trying to picture the roar of the crowd as he steps out of the home dugout for the first time in his old uniform, unchanged in the 11 years since he wore it last. Perhaps, we assume, because we opine that it would be a fitting way to end his career, that he processes the same thoughts. In New York, he has connections with manager Joe Torre, George Steinbrenner, Derek Jeter, Jason Giambi, Jorge Posada, Mike Mussina, and Mariano Rivera, among others. In Boston, it's a piece of cloth. Oh, and he yelled at Curt Schilling once.

But it comes down, in the end, to money, really. Is any one team going to blow the Astros out of the water so that Clemens would be willing to surrender all his perks in Houston? If the Astros pony up $20 million and the Red Sox or Yankees offer $25 million, is that enough to pry him north? As much as we'd like to make believe, Clemens isn't a novelist, no purveyor of words looking for an angle that can last well into the next generation of Red Sox fans. We can't assume the "story" of him returning to Boston would supersede the "compensation" of him returning to Boston.

But both would be huge.

Just imagine: Schilling, Clemens, Daisuke Matsuzaka, Josh Beckett, and Jonathan Papelbon. That has to make any New Englander with even the slightest interest in the game of baseball tingle with excitement. One has to wonder if it has the same effect on Clemens. Mussina, Clemens, Pettitte, Chien-Ming Wang, and Carl Pavano isn't bad either.

There's no need for a DVD this time around. Money will be the deciding factor. And since the Red Sox just tossed $51 million around this offseason just to talk to Matsuzaka, you think Clemens didn't notice? Breaking the 192-win team record he holds with Cy Young, being able to hang with old friends again, and the ability to go back and end it where it all started, that must be nice for Clemens. But it's obvious now, after this offseason, what kind of cash the Red Sox are willing to dish out. And if he's going to be willing to give up his Houston luxuries, then that price had better be pretty steep. You too, George.

Get to work, Theo. Time for the Sox and Clemens to renew their vows.

 

Why? You already have more relievers than you have spots for if you include Hansack and Bryce Cox. Drawing a line over Delcarmen seems like madness considering the quality of hitter you'd be getting with Helton. His power is obviously not what it once was, but he's still one of the best hitters in the game and would definitely have an impact in that lineup. Plus is anyone really convinced that Lowell will be good for another year?

It seems to me like Boston crapped the bed again by pretending like they're poorer than they are. They backed out of the A-Rod deal over a couple millions, they couldn't come to terms with the Phillies on Abreu because they wanted Philadelphia to eat more of the contract, and now they passed on Helton because of his millions. Sure he's overpaid, but there is no salary cap and Henry can clearly afford it. He just bought a Nascar team for Christ's sake. Giving up Delcarmen isn't remotely comparable to giving up Hanley and Anibal, so this decision strikes me as dumb-dumb-dumb.

Then again, I hate the Sox so it suits me fine.

 

I can see the benefits of both sides of the situation


any hesitancy I had over the deal came from the belief that Hanson or Delcarmen should emerge as the closer this year. those two should be head and shoulders above Timlin, Tavarez or Joel Piniero. that said any team with the hitting the sox have, and would have with the addition of Helton, should be able to get by with an average closer, so long as the middle relief is strong. you take away Hanson and Delcarmen (some reports said the Rockies wanted both), you weaken the entire pen: middle relief, short relief, closing.


crapping the bed by claiming to be poor. not sure that applies here. The Rockies were ready to pay as much as half of Helton's salary and take Tavarez andLowell's salaries The sox didn't pursue the deal because of the prospects Colorado wanted, not the m oney it would cost them. The sox paid for matzusaka and drew (and Manny) and they didn't come cheap. On the other hand, they blew it with Damon. Not getting A-rod was a good thing.

 

I'd love it if Delcarmen was in the mix given that I have him for $1 in my keeper league, but you know as well as I do that Boston fans trashed him last season. The idea that he was "too much to give up" for Helton is obviously ludicrous. It was about the money.

 

that's makes no sense. with the amount the Rockies were gonna pay toward Helton's salary (most reports had it at half), the Sox would have been on the hook for $8 million per for Helton. In '07, with Lowell and Tavarez in Colorado, they basically would have been "making money" on the deal.


please let me know how the Sox saved money by not making this deal. And by all means take into consideration the four or five years after this, when Lowell and Tavarez are gone to free agency. In 2008 they'll sign a new first baseman and move Youkilis back to third. it's very possible it'll cost the sox at least the $8 million they'd have paid Helton.

It was about the sox not wanting to get rid of prospects and young arms. Remember that it wasn't just delcarmen and/or hansen the Rockies wanted. they were targeting Jacoby Ellsbury, who right now is their centerfielder of the future.

 

Please stop bullshitting me. You know who you're talking to, so just quit with the nonsense. Helton's contract is monstrous, which is the whole reason that Colorado wants to move him. That's where the Red Sox saved money by not making the deal, because they won't be on the hook for the $50+ million that would remain on Helton's contract even if the Rockies were prepared to absorb the other $40 million.

The Rockies wanted one prospect out of a list that included Delcarmen, Hansen, Ellsbury, Buchholz, Bard, and someone else I'm forgetting. The deal would have been done if they had just been willing to part with Delcarmen alone, but the Red Sox refused to do that, and you can't possibly tell me that you wouldn't trade Delcarmen for Helton. It was about the money.

 

Bullshitting you? Helton at $8 million a year is a bargain. It's less than what they're paying Mike Lowell. It's about what they'll end up paying Lowell's replacement. How does that translate to savings. when you answer, please don't ignore the savings they'll realize by dumping Lowell's remaining year's salary and by not having to sign a replacement for Lowell.

again, there have been varying reports that the Rockies wanted one or two of the sox top prospects. Regardless, that doesn't change the fact that the end result, financially, would have been a wash. I'm amazed you can't realize that given reports Colorado would have paid half Helton's salary, plus the going rate for a starting first baseman.

 

It would have been slightly over $10 million a year, actually. He is due $85.5 million over the next five years, with a $4.6 million buyout in 2012, and the Red Sox were supposedly asked to pay $53.5 million of that.

No, there aren't. Practically all the reports have agreed that the Rockies submitted a list and wanted one prospect included from it. Delcarmen alone would have gotten the job done, and obviously you don't turn down the opportunity to acquire Helton because you can't bring yourself to trade Delcarmen.

Just drop the act and stop being dumb. The only reason Colorado was willing to trade him in the first place was because his contract is enormous, and Boston was asked to take on the majority of that financial burden. For you to pretend that money wasn't a factor makes you look like a fool.

 

$10 million, $12 million. still a bargain, especially if you lose Tavarez and Lowell's contracts ($12M-plus this season) and save on what you'd pay for a free agent first baseman (Carlos Guillen?) in '08. Face it, it's just about a wash financially.

The Globe and Herald printed stories earlier this week that stated the Rockies wanted one or two. One article said they wanted Hansen and Delcarmen. deal with it.

the only one who looks like a fool is you for comparing Boston (apples) to Colorado (oranges). you do realize that Boston's revenue stream is a bit healthier than the Rockies' don't you? They practically print their own money up there. John Henry doesn't care about money. He just blew a huge wad on Matsusaka, signed Drew and Lugo for huge bucks, kept Manny and his burdensome contract and in all likelihood will sign Schilling for $13M for 2008. And he'll pay for a free agent first baseman after this season.

The only logical conclusion here is that the Sox wanted to hold on to their young talent. Guess they learned from the Beckett trade. Good for them and thank you for playing.