Running Red Sox thread

Yeah, you can see some decline in Clemens' numbers in the years prior to leaving Boston, but he was still a pretty good pitcher. His 3.63 ERA in '96 was respectable, if not up to the 2.85 he posted in '94. That said, you can't really blame him for wanting to be on a winning team. The Sox simply weren't good between '86 and '98, and it was looking like staying with Boston would cost Clemens his shot at 300 wins given the 10-13 record he put up in '96 despite that 3.63 ERA. It seemed to me that the fans just chose to side with Duquette, then got burned by it.

 

I'm not saying it's right, but what 90 percent of Sox fans began started believing when Roger began pitching out of his mind in Toronto is that Dan Duquette ran him out on a rail.

 

Lok, it's not like I'm trying to take Duquette's side because I'm not. That fucker made some of the worst signings ever - Rob Deer come on down! - and he made no bones at all about what he thought of Roger's age and potential.

But Roger wasn't exactly doing much to play away from the sterotype. He had gotten lazy in his last to offseason as a Sock. Just look at the pictures from then vs. when he showed up in Toronto. Plus, you can't exactly use Toronto - who went had finished behind the Sox the previous few years and who had recently gone through a fire sale from its glory days - as your benchmark as a winning organization.

Roger made it personal - twice - by signing with division rivals - one of whom was the ancient enemy. Do you really think he did that by accident? I don't.

He was clearly trying to stick it to Duquette - which I would have supported - but he went beyond that and started trying to stick it to the whole orgaization and the fans too. Most of whom had done nothing but support him.

And you are right Collin - he did have good ERA's in his last 2 years. They weren't that unlike last year for him (although those Sox gave up a shitload of unearned runs on him) in that they just couldn't - or wouldn't - score for him.

But in those last couple of seasons he was just like Lowe a couple of years ago - as soon as something went wrong he just fucking gave up instead of bearing down. And I think that a good bit of that was due to him not being in shape.

 

I'm not going to take Duquette's side either because he is a jackass and responsible for the mess we are in with Manny, but in his defense, Roger was mailing it in the last 2 seasons in Boston and Roger going to Toronto made the Pedro deal possible.

I remember Roger saying that the standing ovation he recieved in his last trip to Fenway (when they thought he was retiring) would be one his greatest memories always.

 

bump...for the Mets fan(s).

 

the biggest laugh on TBR is there is actually a Met's thread,, OLL

 

we will see who laughing in october. why is it funny? the mets will be the team to beat in the nl. are you just jealous that pedro inst with boston anymore? even with somewhat suspect starting pitching they will outscore everyone with that lineup they have. boston will be tough but i dont see them winning their division let alone the ws.

 

can't ... breathe ... must stop ... laughing ... oh god ...

 

show me a team in the nl with a more powerful lineup and expierenced pitching and i will back off the mets the team to beat quote. until then yes i see them as the team to beat in the nl. i know the braves will be tough but their luck has to run out sometime, why not this year? the cardinals will be there too but the mets have speed, power, clutch, and a great closer. why wouldnt they be the team to beat?

 

And as for the Mets, getting Delgado was a huge bonus and David Wright is one of the best young players in the game. But they, Floyd, and Beltran are about all you have going for you on offense, and that's only if Floyd can have back to back 500+ AB seasons for the first time in his career. People talk about Jose Reyes like he's actually good, but the only thing he was good at last season was stealing bases. His .300 OBP last year was the lowest of any regular leadoff man in major league baseball, and getting on base that rarely meant a loss of runs for the team. It will mean the same thing in 2006 and beyond.

Then on the pitching side, Pedro is still a god when he can take the mound, but that's looking increasingly sketchy. Adding Wagner was a good move too, assuming he can stay healthy, but he's turning 35 this season. The rest of your bullpen stinks since they stupidly decided to move Heilman out (he's much better as a reliever), and the rest of your rotation is nothing special at all. Glavine is at least decent, but Heilman doesn't have the stamina to be a starter, Zambrano is bad (miss Kazmir?), and Trachsel is no good either.

Sorry, the Mets will be improved with Delgado and Wagner, but them being a serious World Series contender is as much of a myth as the hype around the Toronto Blue Jays.