Running Red Sox thread

I have not said this in a while.........fuck the Yankees.........there now I feel better.

 

What do you think of this scenario.

It's pretty clear that Tejada would like to play on a winning team - which ain't gonna happen in Baltimore anytime soon. And the Sox, really aren't al that old, so if they cleaned out the cubbard quite a bit and gave a lot of prospects - including Marte - to the O's, then they might bite. This really wouldn't kill the Sox, because they have like 7 of the first 85 picks (or something like that) in the draft and can afford to buy better picks than their draft position allows - like with Hansen.

Then the core of the team is set for at least the next 3-4 years, at which point some of the new guys can come in. It would be a little risky, but if it worked, the 3-4-5 of Miggy, Ortiz, Ramirez for an absolute FORCE the next couple of years.

Here is the roster from ESPN

Pitchers
NUM NAME AGE
56 Craig Hansen 22
51 Cla Meredith 22
59 Abe Alvarez 23
57 Manny Delcarmen 23
76 Jamie Vermilyea 23
21 Josh Beckett 25
58 Jonathan Papelbon 25
37 Jermaine Van Buren 25
53 Tim Bausher 26
55 Lenny DiNardo 26
61 Bronson Arroyo 28
30 Matt Clement 31
59 Guillermo Mota 32
29 Keith Foulke 33
37 Rudy Seanez 37
38 Curt Schilling 39
50 Mike Timlin 39
49 Tim Wakefield 39
16 David Wells 42
Cacthers
NUM NAME AGE
48 Kelly Shoppach 25
33 Jason Varitek 33
17 John Flaherty 38
Infielders
NUM NAME AGE
11 Andy Marte 22
40 Alejandro Machado 23
20 Kevin Youkilis 26
23 Alex Cora 30
19 Mike Lowell 31
10 Tony Graffanino 33
8 Mark Loretta 34
13 Roberto Petagine 34
Outfielders
NUM NAME AGE
39 Adam Stern 25
34 David Ortiz 30
7 Trot Nixon 31
24 Manny Ramirez 33

 

whatever happens with Manny, happens. If he stays for the remainder of his contract, I'll be glad. .300/40/125 for the next three years is a good thing.

 

Boston is the better team right now, but the Red Sox are definitely in trouble. They have a few aging stars (and one young stud in Beckett) surrounded by a bunch of nothings. If one or more of those stars gets injured or struggles more than expected, Boston could finish as low as fourth in the A.L. East (although third is more realistic).

C: Varitek - good hitter and great clubhouse presence, but he's getting up in years.
1B: Youkilis?? - takes walks but has no power.
2B: Loretta - very nice pick-up for a year or two. I can't believe SD just gave him away.
SS: Cora?? - horrible for a starter.
3B: Lowell - maybe he'll rebound, but I think he's done.
LF: Manny - great hitter, but his indicators are slipping. He'll turn 34 and isn't known for his conditioning.
CF: Stern?? - horrible, horrible for a starter.
RF: Nixon - could have a nice season if he could ever stay healthy.
DH: Ortiz - arguably the best hitter in baseball right now.

Ortiz should remain studly, and Manny will be strong even if he slips some as expected, but not having Damon at the front of the lineup will hurt both of them. Loretta bails you out a bit since he'll be a great #2 hitter, but you have no leadoff man. And if Nixon can't stay healthy or Lowell doesn't get back to where he once was, your lineup is basically three guys who are worth a damn and six others that aren't.

Then as far as the pitching is concerned, Beckett was a great addition if he can just avoid those blister problems, but it won't matter if Schilling doesn't revert to form. The other starters aren't anything to write home about. Then adding Mota and Seanez really upgraded what would have been a weakness in the bullpen, although it's still a question mark as to how Foulke will perform.


So if Schilling comes back strong and the other guys stay pretty healthy, the best Boston can hope for is to finish a distant second in the East and probably finish 5 games out of the wild card. And given that most of Boston's most important pieces are pretty old, the future only gets bleaker from here. Savor those World Series memories, because you won't be making any new ones for a long time to come.

 

Now I know you're just trying to be antagonistic.

seriously, are all O's fans as deluded as you are? you're insane if you think the Sox will finish fourth. They finish third with their eyes closed. and I seriously doubt they plan to start the season with Stern and Cora as starters.

as for Manny's diminishing skills, post that shit when he isn't hitting 45 homers and knocking in 145.

If Lowell hits 15 homers and knocks in 75 (mediocre by his past standards) he's Bill Mueller with a gold glove. Youkilis can't help but surpass Millar's performance.

Yeah, I'm concerned about the Sox starting pitching, but if I were a Yankees fan, I'd have the same concerns about Johnson holding up as I do about Schilling.

 

Julian Tavarez. two years. Isn't he like 50 years old?

 

He's one of those south american guys who have been pitching in the big leagues since he was like 17. So it just seems like he's 50. Didn't he have shoulder problems? He's a head case though.

Good thing we are rebuilding our relievers since our CF position is so set.

 

I'm not saying it will happen. The most likely thing is that they still finish second because the Orioles have too many holes and I'm not half as impressed as everyone else with what the Blue Jays did this off-season. But Beckett's blister problems, Schilling's uncertainty, and the complete reliance on two guys for your offense means that anything going wrong could have a disasterous effect.

What courage would that take? The whole point is to anticipate decline, not to notice it once it has already started. And as for Lowell, if he rebounds then you guys came out allright. If he doesn't (and I don't expect him to), then it's yet another hole in the lineup. Also, don't forget that Mueller was a lot better than Lowell in OBP, which is a more meaningful measure than batting average.

 

would you really be surprised if Manny averaged, 40/130 over the next three years? I wouldn't. And the Sox will hardly rely on only Ramirez and Ortiz. Nixon and Varitek put up decent numbers and, OBP aside, Lowell's production was about equal to Mueller's.

BTW: how confident would you be in the Yankees pitching next season? Any worries you'd have about Schilling you should have about Randy Johnson. Mussina is 37. Pavano and Wright were busts last year and the chances of Small and Chacon repeating their performances are no better than even.

 

I know you wouldn't, and most people think like you. That's kind of the whole point of looking beyond what the average person sees. Maybe I'll be wrong, but I see plenty in his indicators to be concerned about. He's not making as much contact as he has in previous years, and given his lack of conditioning, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see someone his age start declining fairly rapidly. If it doesn't, it certainly wouldn't be the first time I was wrong about something, but if it does then remember I told you it was coming.

Oh come on. This doesn't even deserve a response.

Schilling: 93 innings, 5.69 ERA, 1.53 WHIP, .314 BAA
Johnson: 225.2 innings, 3.79 ERA, 1.13 WHIP, .243 BAA

Not exactly the same, are they? Yes, Johnson is old and wasn't his usual amazingly dominant self last season. That's no surprise, given that I said the Yankees were making a mistake by giving up Vazquez for an aging Johnson. But he was still one of the best pitchers in the American League, while Schilling most certainly wasn't. There are reasons to be concerned about both, but Curt is much more of an overall question mark.

As for the rest, you're correct that New York's starting pitching isn't good. Mussina is in obvious decline, while Chacon and Small were incredibly lucky. Then I don't know whether Wright or Pavano can turn things around. But I do know that they have the lineup to overcome all that, especially with the quality of their bullpen.