question for yankees fans

If one of their starting pitchers goes down they are fucked IMO. I like the Yankees to win the AL East but lose to Boston in the ALCS. Series against Pedro, Schilling and Lowe will be brutal

 

so, when you said that A-Rod was not one of the top 5 SS in the league...was this your opinion, or something actually quatifiable?

as for your misleading argument...i might bite a little on it except A-Rod was 5th in MLB in total chances. and three of the guys ahead of him had more innings played this past year. yet, he committed only 8 errors. the guys with more chances (and...one would think...more range) committed considerably more errors than A-Rod.

Player Total Chances Errors Innings played
A Berroa 760 24 1381.2
Tejada 751 21 1417.2
Furcal 749 31 1350.0
Cabrera 733 18 1385.2
A-Rod 699 8 1369.2

fielding the SS position is a lot more than getting to balls up the middle and in the hole. you have to field more ground balls than anyone on the field...and then throw a strike to throw the runner out. it is about not allowing extra bases...and it does not matter if that extra base is first or second. A-Rod has done that as well as anyone in the game.

 

if you watch someone play night in and night out, then you see what kind of range they have. your range, or lack of, HIGHLY affects your fielding %. for instance, furcal gets to balls that just about no one in the league can. he has more errors than the other guys. take away the bad throws he makes on those balls only he can get to, and what do you have? a higher fielding %. its not rocket science.


i wasn't saying a-rod is no good because he has limited range. the point i was trying to make, was his limited range cuts down several chances a year. you give me 100 balls within a few steps, and then 100 balls where i have to make a play, and which 100 am i gonna make more E's?

innings played have nothing to do with it, and the chances are misleading.

 

the reason that i pointed out innings played was to show that A-Rod did not get a disproportionate number of routine chances simply by playing more games/innings.

i understand that fielding percentage can be a misleading stat. but to give a pass to a player because he makes a play on a ball that very few can get to...but then throws it into the third row is where i think your argument is flawed.

like i said, playing the SS position is a lot more than range. A-rod had 8 errors last year...my guess is that at least 8 of Furcal's errors were throwing errors...which many times leads to a runner on SECOND base...not just first.

 

if you watch these guys enough you can see it. i see it.

still missing part of the point. with the rangers pitching staff, you would think a-rod would have a good many more chances than most other SS since they suck. he doesn't, because he doesn't have the range to get to balls that others in the league can. would we rather have a guy who is consitent but is limited in range (and arm since we're still going here), or someone who has the ability to get to damn near everything with the chance of throwing it away on occassion? i take the latter.

 

no, i get your point. i just happen to disagree with your philosophy...and some of your reasoning. keeping with the Furcal/A-Rod comparison, Furcal had 50 more chances last season, but he had 23 more errors...almost half of those additional chances. what you are saying is that you would be willing to give up a free base (or two) because of an error for every additional play that Furcal makes. i am not willing to do that.

i am a little confused about your argument about A-Rod getting more chances because the Rangers pitching staff sucked last year. there are, afterall, only 3 opportunities to make an out in an inning...unless you make an error. had you said that the Rangers were a predominantly sinker ball/change up staff and thus resulting in more ground balls, i would understand. but then you would be describing the Braves staff too.

 

i was saying the rangers staff sucked so there were more pitches thrown, more balls put in play. you would think a-rods chances would have been higher. thus proving my point that he doesn't get to as many balls as others in the league.

you made some good points, i'm not arguing that. however, you can't just base it on the fielding %. it is too misleading.

i don't see him being one of the top 5 fielding 3rd baseman either. ok, maybe barely cracking the top 5.

 

How many assists and put-outs did the top 5 guys have?

 

i see where you are going with that...but i still don't get it. just because there are more pitches and balls hit into play does not mean that there are any more than 27 outs, and thus opportunities to make plays, in a game.

we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one though. i agree that fielding % can be misleading...but IMO, not in this case. A-Rod is not Ozzie Smith...but i will take an everyday SS who committs 10 or less errors in a season all day long. as for what he will do at 3b...i am not ready to comment on that just yet. i doubt that he will win a gold glove there anytime soon...but the yankees did not get him because they thought he would make Brooks Robinson-like plays.

Rez, i posted the total chances earlier in this thread...along with errors. subtract the errors from TC's and you will get number of assists and put-outs.

Berroa - 760-24=736
Tejada - 751-21=730
Furcal - 749-31=718
Cabrera - 733-18=715
A-Rod - 699-8=691

 

If you're picking Furcal over A-Rod, then you're nuts. Since you said that fielding percentage is over rated, lets just skip that stat.

Overall, taking batting (HRs, hits, RBIs, etc), leadership, iand nfluence in a ball club (i.e. teamwork), there is no way that Furcal is better than A-Rod. A-Rod is one of the top players in the GAME, not just at SS. You can't claim that for Furcal.

Furcal may have the advantage of getting to more balls than A-Rod (but, as was stated, he committed many more errors), but in every other aspect, A-Rod blows Furcal away.

Just my opinion.