QB Controvery

>> [enthusiasm and excitement] sell tickets and make fans less bitter. Too bad they don't make fans less stupid - I'm sorry but giving us the words "excitement", "shotgun", and "headset" and showing us a picture of John Fox yelling and pointing ain't gonna get it. Sure, running game, better play calling, commitment to the defensive line and team speed, I can get down with that. If they want to go in a new direction and make things happen in different ways that's fine. But I'm not going to sit there and say all's right with the world because we have a coach that can yell and a quarterback who can run around instead of throwing the ball in a controlled environment.

I know that you are not a moron so I don't understand why you don't understand that enthusiasm and excitement among the players is an important element in winning. In fact, wasn't it the very loss of those elements last year that caused our players to tank on Seifert and get his ass fired? And I doubt that you are a total ass so I don't understand you making insinuations that all fans (other than yourself, I assume) are stupid. Or to insinuate that all us stupid fans are going to be fooled and think everything is hunkey-dorey just becuz of there's a new sheriff in town. Right now things look bleak to most every fan, which is an evironment that you are apparently most comfortable in. But I am going to remain optimistic and continue to give Fox the benefit of the doubt. I have reasons for hope and am going to cling to those until there's no room left for hope.

>> I'd guess even (Weine's) wife has to fake it. Fasani brings enthusiasm and excitement and I'm all for that and a few wins.

> Hooray for emotional investment! Glad to see you can put up lucid and factual information instead of rah-rah words and putdowns to players you don't like. Really...I'm not trying to get into pissy little shouting matches with you. I just don't understand why you have to make comments like that, they really have no bearing on anything and only show you as having extreme bias.

was only trying to add a little humor. as Putt would say, facetious. would have thought you could have handled that. glad you found my post lucid. sometimes i seem to have trouble communicating well to folks. nice to find someone on my same level of intellect. looks like you and me are gonna be best friends. hooray. just hope i still have room for such an emotional investment.

 

Damn!

Did anyone read all that?

Just checking...

 

I read pages 3 & 4 and laughed my ass off.. I also felt left out... another Bline thread that I was not part of. :applause:

By the way... estimates are in the thousands... thousands of dollars that the team spent after each play on duct tape. There was always a big "X" right were Mr. Pocket Passer would be standing...

 

>>you insist on implying in your arguments that all QB's scramble/run like their life depends on it.

A quarterback drops back to pass. That's his duty. I'm not saying that he must inherently stay back there, I'm saying that there's a strong difference between doing it for offensive gain - and it should be done fairly rarely - and doing it out of lack of balls. Go back to my statements about being committed to the pocket.

>>holding the ball is the reason most QBs get sacked.

Well, to a point but I'm talking about Beuerlein on three step drops. You hit it quick - one, two, three, throw. There's not much time to hesitate. He did often, and then would stand there and not realize that he needed to either start dropping again or start buying time.

>>Why would you have taken it. My guess it that because you know that it would have helped our offense. Therefore I can conclude that you and I are in agreement. His lack of mobility h(i)ndered the offense.

I would take Deshaun Foster if he had wings and could shoot tranquilizer darts out his ass to relieve pursuit. That doesn't mean Foster's a bad player.

Any time you can think of making a player's weakness a strength you take it.

That doesn't mean the offense was hindered. A running Beuerlein would be additive, but lack of running doesn't make a quarterback inept or less able to be a quarterback. 1999 proved that, and 2000 proved that.

>>intelligent player? ya need to help me with what you are trying to argue.

It means that Beuerlein had enough sense to know to get rid of the ball on time and never did.

>>that's flawed logic and you know it.

No, not at all. It's a basic argument, that mobility does not suggest less sacks. You're suggesting that mobility alone suggests less sacks.

>>it doesn't mean that it is a non-factor.

I'm not saying it's completely useless, but it did not hinder us in 1999. There were about a hundred bigger issues in 2000 and taking off running wouldn't have helped any of them.

>>I just don't see as being something that we are gonna see with Smith very often.

he's a deep threat. Why do you see that as a rarity when that's one of the few things he can do without fucking up?

>>got flushed and then dumped the ball to Smith who had no chance to pick up a first down.

You think a receiver screen is an option a lot? You think in preseason a QB is going to go through three progressions and then go to the screen? No. A screen is set up - meaning since it's a receiver screen that at least one receiver is tied up in the setup. If he looked at 1 and 2, assuming that Smith wasn't 1, he probably should have looked longer. Most screens are at least second option or there'd be no reason to show them.

>>so I don't understand you making insinuations that all fans (other than yourself, I assume) are stupid.

I'm not calling all fans stupid. The post was there, you know what I was trying to say. The simple fact is that the franchise is feeding us shit and buzzwords to get people happy about another losing season. I don't need that and the promise of a happy footed third stringer to get me excited or to buy tickets and follow a team.

 

Which is the best? Happy feet or No feet? Years ago, certain QBs with Happy Feet were sometimes referred to as "Playmakers".

 

I want to see the offense executed. if it happens to be done by someone who buys time in the pocket and knows the right time to run, that's wonderful. I'm not against positive yardage. I also want to see the ball thrown, and thrown in a controlled environment, since that's what the coaches are asking for.

 

has a "scrambling" qb ever won the superbowl?

Tarkenton didn't....it took guys like Stauback, Elway, and Young to learn to throw in the pocket before they won any superbowls...you can say the same for Farve....when those guys were scrambling around they weren't winning any superbowls.

It is part of the development process. A young QB who scrambles around means he isn't making decisions fast enough or isn't sure of his decision, so he hold on to it and scrambles. As he gets better and better through experience and coaching, he starts to scramble less.

Wasn't Joe Nammoth a running QB at Alabama...he turned into probably the 3rd best pocket passer of all time...and won a SB. He was forced to learn to throw from the pocket because of his knees.

 

What you ask for is accurate. The problem is there are only a handful of winners out there that can stay in as long as you would like. The bottom line is this team is no where near being the type team that can or should expect their QB to stay in the pocket as long as "suggested". Its the way it has been now for years with the Panthers. Hell, I have "happy feet" when I watch Fasani... I tend to agree with others that it will be easier to coach him to stay in the pocket than it is to coach a pocket passer not only on what to do when they run but being able to throw on the run.

I don't see this team creating the atmosphere for a pocket passer any time this year. (Maybe some in the back half of the season)

 

Yep. The two I can remember winning - Elway and Young - took forever to go all the way and did so almost completely as pocket passers. Young, in particular, was a big runner and yet I never remembered him taking off against the Chargers. He could have - he could have easily set records for QB rushing if he'd wanted. He stuck in the pocket and delievered a whipping instead.

Favre never really struck me as a scrambler. His speed isn't good, and he really just looked like he was getting fidgety and wanted to hit someone. I'd never play sandlot ball if Favre and Sauerbrun showed up.

 

Ahh but that is the point... a good number of pocket passers could/can scramble if they need to. Farve also could complete passes with his body almost horizontal.

While I am no means comparing Fasani to Farve, I agreed when I heard one of the announcers say he was "Farvelike". That little stint for Fasani at LB in college shows he too is tuff as shit. There is no doubt he took the worst beating of any Panther QB this preseason, especially the second game... He is one tuff sumbitch.

Farve, Young, and the ever so mobiel Elway had a knack for being able to rally the team, its not a skill you can measure on paper. Its a skill Fasani has too.