QB Controvery

By the way P2receivehead, that Dan Quail remark doesn't apply here. I'm not comparing Weinke to anyother Qbs. I am comparing the savior's....you know, the third string Qbs.

Good try, but you''ve got the wrong number.

 

MvM, I understand a QB needing to stay in the pocket, but damn...you act like he should never leave the damn thing. There have been many successful QB's that scrambled out of the pocket on a regular basis.

Steve Young
Roger Staubach
Fran Tarkenton
Donovan McNabb
Daunte Culpepper
Mark Brunell
Bart Starr
Steve McNair
Doug Flutie

Now grant it some of these are lots better than others, but in today's game I honestly believe you have to have a mobile QB to win, not saying they have to be a speedster, but that was one of the big reasons why B-line couldn't get us any further, because 10 plays a game somebody was going to chase him down. I may be wrong but I think Fasani only rushed 4 times, but if you can scramble from one side or to the other to make something happen then what is wrong with that?

I know a QB's job is to primarily throw the ball and handoff for the run, but I think of one of the greastest pocket passer's of all time in Marino and there were some years he had some good teams and didn't win it all. I just think you have to have the balance between the 2. But you can't make Weinke faster, but there is always a chance Fasani can know when to hold em(stay in the pocket) and know when to fold em and (get the hell outta dodge).

I just don't recall many if any times that he left the pocket when he should have stayed there.

 

that's damned encouraging Meat. I haven't had time to tape - I had to pop in a tape and I won't get to it till tomorrow - so that eases my mind somewhat.


UNCF -

>>you act like he should never leave the damn thing.

Under best circumstances, no. Shouldn't.


Beuerlein's lack of mobility didn't hinder us. What hindered us was that he wasn't the same player in 2000 that he was in 1999. He held the ball too long and the early season injury sustained at WAS hurt his accuracy and his
Of course, there were coaching changes and personnel changes as well.


>>but I think of one of the greastest pocket passer's of all time in Marino and there were some years he had some good teams and didn't win it all.

And yet who was the last scrambler to win it all? Did Kordell win it? Did Flutie win? Or did Warner, Brady (deemed too slow by Musgrave), Dilfer, Favre, Young? Sure, Favre and Young in the last 30 years won their SBs, as well as Elway, but running was option 5 or 6. They got their job done in the pocket. If scrambling was all it took Kordell, Cunningham, Flutie, Vick, Deion Sanders would have won as QBs. Go back to the beginning of time - save Otto Graham, that is, it just doesn't happen. It will, but it's a strong trend against so far. Hell, save two noticeable runs by Elway I can't remember he, Favre, or Young scrambling or even rolling out in super bowls. I can remember Montana rolling out once

Players are habitual. Juke moves and 4.6 speed is great but a player will tend to react certain ways in certain situations. Defenses are getting smarter to shut down scramblers - how many years did it take Kordell to recover? so how much success do you think Fasani will have rolling to one side every time?

>>I just think you have to have the balance between the 2. But you can't make Weinke faster, but there is always a chance Fasani can know when to hold em

That's actually not true in the sense you believe it to be. Pretty much every time Weinke's taken off where he did have a chance (in other words, without a player draped on him when he took off) he's made good yards, and yards up the middle instead of dancing and causing chance of big loss on the run. he's very efficient with his feet and I don't find that a concern.

But he's not exciting enough I guess. 11-14 for a TD was okay, but the week before Fasani ran for two scores and that's all we ever hear about. We can hear all day about Muhammad being locked on and a receiver making a play on it but we hush up about Fasani making a poor read into double cover and getting picked for throwing high as well as into traffic. They've both struggled - most teams have at least one or two QBs who have had multiple games like Weinke's Dallas game. But Fasani can run and that makes us tingle. Weinke throws an incompletion and it makes us think of 1-15. Yeah, that's...umm...uhh...fair.

>>I just don't recall many if any times that he left the pocket when he should have stayed there.

I can't remember many times between the first two games that Fasani DID stay in the pocket. It was rare. If you're saying it's acceptable to take off 70% of the time, that's your deal. I want 70% completion in preseason, not 70% running.

 

Well the latest that comes to mind for me is Steve Young, I do realize that was a few years ago. Most of the QB's that won it all were more mobile than Weinke, other than Warner, but it's pretty darn hard to say Warner carried his team, although at this point he is better than Weinke, but one heck of a better offensive team.

I for one think B-line was pretty much the same player, we didn't have the same overall team if that is what you mean.

I think Fasani has become better and can learn what he needs to learn for a rookie at that. Weinke, does only have the one year under his belt but I for one expect a little more from him than most rookies or one year players just due to what all he has done and his age.

Warner and Dilfer mobility wise are probably closer to Weinke or vise-versa and yes they did win it all, but both were better in the other areas than Weinke.

I just don't see any positives in Weinke at this point other than the fact he stays in the pocket more than Fasani to get sacked.

All I know is this team scores when Fasani is in the game and doesn't do much when Weinke is in there. Fasani has rushed 9 times for 70 yards over 3 games since he didn't play the one. That is 3 times a game if I remember math correctly, so I can live with that. I wish somebody would have charted how much he was in the pocket....I just didn't see the 70% of him leaving the pocket like you stated and I have watch all for games.

Now you may say Fasani has been playing against 2nd and 3rd stringers a lot, but thats also what he has had to throw to as well, which could be a major factor in the completion % you are reffering to. I do recall a lot more of Fasanis passing being dropped than Weinke, but of course a lot of Weinkes didn't make it to anybody this last game. Unfortunately thats the only category Weinke beats him at so far....well that and INT's 2 to 1, oh and sacks 6 to 2.

I am not trying to flame here, but again...I just don't see anything in Weinke to praise him about yet. If you could point out some positives I would be more than happy to hear those about him. Hopefully he will have a FSU flashback or something.

 

Nah - fuck that. Pay more attention to Rodney Peete.

AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!:help:

 

oh Christ on a cracker. This franchise pisses me off good.

Why does it seem like this is a word straight from JR?

 

I'm shell shocked.

Observer has it on charlotte.com now. Alot of word that it's just 'possible'.

I never would have thought. I wonder if Walls and Moose have anything to do with it. Byrd gave Weinke a disgusted look when he overthrew him on Friday.

 

Cube, right now it appears Weinke is the 3rd string...probably the savior.

Peete starting? PSLs are going to be flying off the shelves in the classifieds...

The numbers for Weinke stunk - and if he locked-on his receivers any tighter, he'd have been using a tractor-beam. Agreed that Fasani was playing against the "guys that won't be making the Browns". But, he also didn't get too much of a chance against anyone's first string - to prove himself, or look like a kid.

But Peete? Not in my wildest nightmares. Now I really wish we'd gone after Charlie Batch. Or George friggin' Blanda.

Bradshaw used to have some pretty rough pre-seasons too - and he DID lose his job to Jefferson St. Joe, too. These games don't mean a thing, but come this Sunday, they will. Either Weinke has shoulder issues, we're trying to fool mensa-boy Billick - or Fox drank some tainted Seifert water...

Peete? Geez...

By the way Cube, NICE game against Miami of Ohio on Saturday. Put that L to your forehead and walk around uptown, OK? Heck, even DUKE won...

 

>> I'm not comparing Weinke to other Qb's, I'm comparing the idiotic logic that is going on in Carolina.

guess the idiots have it by the way, you really should check out your own logic before calling others idiots

>> Beuerlein's lack of mobility didn't hinder us.

that's a joke right?

 

I'm... well honestly I'm just confused... all I can think is 1 there may be some deal in the works to bring another QB in... but Peete I just don't get... Frankly IMO I've always thought THIS year should be Weinke, Fasani, Peete... Peete can talk the game due to experience, but I don't think he has the tools anymore... Weinke has more tools, but just doesn't seem to be putting it together... and I'll admit Fasani is a TERRIFIC RAW talent... and given the right pace could prove to be a VERY effective starter in the NFL...

I think fanball said it right... did I just say that?? but here's the quote