Projected team strength and weaknesses

>>He's much more effective in space, which is how he was used at Georgia.

'course, he was also exclusively a strong side guy. And I think that's a place he could excel, covering the TE. Would be better for his coverage, you'd guess, to have him locked on a guy more of the time, and would follow the pre-Davis ideas of blitzing more.

And honestly, I don't think of Witherspoon as a space player. So I guess my worry there is that with Davis being the designated space player, you'll have four linemen getting upfield and three backers playing contain. Either we gotta go 2-gap or we'll just get run on all the time.

But the problem is, I don't know where I'd put him of the two, specifically. I just don't think that SLB is that bad an idea either, especially for the time being. The hard part would be the dual re-signings of WW and DM, that and the idea that we really shouldn't heap tons more money on that front seven unless we're just down right dominant (and we aren't).

 

>> Statistically, Foster bounced outside significantly more than Davis has in a Panther uniform (looking at wide left and wide right versus all other runs for both players), but it isn't an overwhelming discrepancy. The thing that stands out more in the statistics is how bad Foster is in short yardage and goal line situations

where would one find such stats? I'm particularly curious about the goal line thing because the first image that comes to my mind is him dragging half the iggles team into the endzone to secure a playoff victory.

>> Proehl is old, but it amazes me how little people remember the key receptions he has made for us not only in the end zone, but to get first downs.

61 receptions ... is that over 2 years? if so, how many last over last year? I don't think many of us have forget or any lack of respect for his contributions. to me he looked to be slowing down last year and combine by our lack of speed outside Smitty, i'm intrigued by Carter's speed. wouldn't you be able to use that and his apparent ability to cut like a razor as an advantage to help keep defenses honest? i felt like the saints were able to sit on us and play us very aggressively on D because of their lack of respect for us to beat them one-on-one. granted there's a lot to be said for savvy. Dave Casper is savvy but not sure i'd want him out there running routes for us at this point in his life.

>> As for Del Rio, it's already been proven that the idea that we were better under him is a total myth.

I'm sorry I missed that discourse.

>> Our rankings have dropped in the intervening period, but only because other defenses have gotten better, not because we've gotten worse.

I've gotta call BS on this. The Panthers D last year was a microspec of what it the prior two years. I'd think even the stats would bear that out.

>> And you can call BS however much you want on Morgan not being a filler, but that's also a thing pretty much everyone has come to acknowledge. It's absolutely undeniable on film, and stands out in his lack of tackles behind the line too. He's just not a downhill player, which is ok in our system, but leaves us vulnerable in run D.

BS. Morgan was prior to last year and when he was healthy our main man in the run D. You could be rite about the filler thing but, if so, he was one helluva filler.

>> But don't feel bad about not understanding the distinction.

Ifin I felt bad about my ignorance, I wouldn't come asking questions. Honestly, thanks for your and Mags input. I feel I am now a better person now having your opinions on the subject.

 

I dunno. If he continues to fumble a lot I think I might just as soon watch Hoov or Goings carry the ball.

 

A legit question since yes we got hurt by TEs and particularly Gaines (?)(SD). But these were the same backers we had when we were the second ranked D in the league and even with Favors we managed to go to the SB on the strength of our D. I still think Trog had the D screwed up in the early part of last year.

 

Maybe, but I don't know how to know that. Jenks playing at 50% for a couple of games hurt us some. Then, adjusting to him not being there took a little time. And Gamble being a rook, Branch too more or less. Etc....

I'm not really a big Trogo fan, or hater. But if we're healthy and don't kick ass this year.....

 

Yes, at safety. He played strong(side) safety at Georgia his final year. When he played linebacker there earlier in his career he was used on the weakside.

Seriously, this is an absolute no-brainer. Every single scouting report (and by scouting report I mean a report written by actual scouts) has Davis either at WLB or SS in certain schemes. It's not even a question. Theoretically you could play him at any linebacking spot because guys are forced to play out of position sometimes, but the idea that he wouldn't be ill-suited to playing strongside is even more silly than the idea that he wouldn't be ill-suited to free safety. I understand the desire to get him on the field, but it should tell you something that absolutely no one of any professional consequence has ever even suggested that Davis could, much less would be used at FS or SLB. Feel free not to take my word for it. By all means, take theirs.

But I agree with you about the need for changes in the front seven. Davis gives us a playmaking ability we haven't had at linebacker, but we also need a physical force there and don't have it. Re-signing Witherspoon and Morgan would prevent us from having that, but I really don't think we'd keep both anyway.

 

>>where would one find such stats? I'm particularly curious about the goal line thing because the first image that comes to my mind is him dragging half the iggles team into the endzone to secure a playoff victory.

Hate to get in the middle of you throwing barbs at me for no reason, HeadCase, but take half a second to think of what Foster was doing with the ball when he was scoring, and where on the field that happened.


I'll link the hint rather than post the pic outright, in case you can pick up where you went wrong by saying that.


http://www.scottrandolph.com/photos/2004/0118six.jpg


FWIW, I don't think Foster can't run inside, but he's probably still best outside the 3 and 4 holes, off tackles and further out, than inside. When he's inside, he's looking to turn outside once he clears the LOS in a lot of cases. It's where he's best, and he can be most effective there, so I don't fault him for it.

 

Actually, if you take UGA's word for it, he was a free safety. And this from their site:
>> Officially moved to SLB during spring
{clip}
...listed as number one SLB at conclusion of spring drills.

that and he played SLB in 2003.

it really takes away from what you're doing when you push shades of gray opinion into a "every single person on earth agrees that it's only pure black" deal. At first look, I don't see any internet sites in search even suggesting WLB, just OLB, and as an option, not as a necessity. Not really any specific mention of him at SLB, either. I just don't buy that it's WLB or bust. *Sure, it's just internet scouts, but I'm not going to search for hours - I'm just going to use a quick Google and know that I don't have access to two or three NFL Scouting departments, nor would you or anyone else.

Some, just as my own notes suggest, feel that Davis can plug holes, which IMO makes him not quite so absurd at SLB. He's a matchup on the TE more than the back, which philosophically puts him out there a bit, in theory, too. He's great in space, but doesn't need to be shielded, so he could do either. He's agressive in run support, not a lay back guy like the other two, and that points to SLB, too. Sure, there are a few down sides to him playing there rather than WLB, just as there are downsides to him playing WLB, or SS, or FS. So in that regard, you might not feel that him at SLB is best, but that it's a ridiculously stupid idea I should be ashamed about, or anything like that? No.

 

Just about anywhere you can find statistics. You can find them at Yahoo, NFL.com, etc. It would behoove you to notice that those sites actually have more than just the base statistics. Click on situational stats and you'll find all sorts of interesting information. I thought everyone knew about that, or maybe you've just never bothered to look. And in regards to the Eagles carry, that's what happens with many casual fans. People who don't pay much attention to football tend to remember one or two highlights and base their entire opinion off of that.

And what, he was fast in '03? Doesn't the suggestion that Proehl is "slowing down" sound a bit silly to you? Proehl was already slow. But to make your comment look even more ridiculous, Proehl caught more passes in '04 for more yards per catch than in '03. And in case you're interested, 25 of his 34 catches last year went for first downs.

Many people who don't know much about football are intrigued by speed. You and Al Davis should have lunch.

Why do you keep using that phrase? Not only does it sound silly, but you haven't actually bothered to make an argument or produce any evidence for your opinion. Is "calling BS" just an easy way out of actually having to do any work in justifying your statements? Can I just disagree with anyone by "calling BS" and have that be ok?

And for the record, you don't seem to realize that Jack Del Rio WAS NOT our defensive coordinator in 2003 when we went to the Super Bowl. Trgovac was our DC, Del Rio was already in Jacksonville.

Under Del Rio in 2002:
290.4 yards allowed and 302 points allowed
Under Trgovac in 2003:
295.3 yards allowed and 304 points allowed

BS, huh?

No. Morgan has put up solid tackles totals when healthy, but very few of those have been behind the line of scrimmage. Even when healthy Morgan didn't put up good tackles numbers until last year. He averaged 6 tackles per game in '01, 6.6 in '02, 6 in '03, and 8.4 last year. Just for the sake of comparison, Ray Lewis had 9.7 tackles per game last year, Donnie Edwards had 9.4, London Fletcher had 8.9, and Zach Thomas had an incredible 11.1.

Tackles statistics are somewhat unreliable and don't tell the whole story, but they do tell something, and if you look at tackles per game, Morgan was still only average last year when healthy and had been below average when healthy every other year of his career.