play calling against Tampa

Brief review of offensive play calling and results:

Panthers take over at own 11 after Smith fair catches with no Buc within 10 yards of him.

1-10 at the 12: Bucs bring safety up into box at last second; play action to Smith, Fasani looks deep; McFarland beats Donnalley and then Smith and flushes Fasani; Sapp gets sack at 1 after beating Nesbit badly (questionable play call? henning expects Bucs to stack against the run and guesses right but protection breaks down; risky play call from own 11 and rookie QB)

2-21 at the 1: Smith off RG; hole closes quickly but Smith cuts back to left and gains 3 (the smart play call to get punter some room)

3-18 at the 4: 3 split out, single back with H-back; draw to Smith; looks like it could go for decent yardage but McFarland beats Donnalley again and stops for 3 yards (henning decides to stay conservative/smart)

punt/ net 45 yards (good)

Bucs up 3

Panthers take over after great return by Smith to 49 (makes great cut and outruns pursuit and gets great block from Hankton to spring him)

1-10 at the 49: I formation, Bucs bring safety into box late; Fasani with 2 step drop pumps to his right but Byrd (I think) never looks; Fasani brings down and scrambles and tosses OB to avoid sack; Moose on the other side looks like he was looking for the quick pass (would appear that Fasani got mixed up on which way the play was to go) (henning is probably trying to get Fasani an easy completion to get him going)

2-10 at the 49: I formation, Bucs bring safety into box late; Smith for 2 yard gain

2-8 at the 49: 3 split out, single back, Bucs blitz 2 from the left side; Rice comes untouched and nearly decapitates Fasani who fumbles but Steussie recovers (Panthers screw up blitz coverage, Steussie picks up a blitzer so he must of expected Smith to pick up Rice – but Smith flairs out to opposite side, can't say that i blame him as Rice is a handful)

punt/ Smart barely steps on goal line otherwise Bucs would get ball at the 2

Panthers get ball back at 17 after Buc drive fizzles

1-10 at 17: Smith for 3 yard gain (McFarland again)

2-7 at 20: 7-step drop; excellent protection but Fasani floats low to an open Hoover (5 yds)

3-7 at 20: I formation, 7-step drop; again good protection; Fasani can’t find receiver scrambles to his left, pulls up and just overthrows to Smith (40 yds) who nearly makes spectacular catch (Smith was well covered)

Bucs fumble

1-10 at Bucs 11: rollout to the right, Bucs with a delayed blitzer that comes untouched; Fasani throws away and Bucs get helmet to Fasani’s chin penalty

1-goal at the 6: Smith off LG for 2

2-goal at the 4: 2 TEs, I formation, Moose in motion tight; Smith off LG for 2

3-goal at the 2: 2 TEs, H-back, 2 backs, Bucs bring everyone up into the box; Fasani misses Walls in back of endzone and Panthers settle for 3

Panthers get ball back at their own 20 (Believe Bucs had a nice drive going and the call a swing pass on 3rd and 1; johnson throws slightly behind receiver which is enough to destroy play; they try to place punt OB inside 5 and barely miss)

1-10 at the 20 with about 5:40 left: Fasani with 2 step drop and floats ball out to Moose who does well to get 4

2-6 at the 24: Smith for 3 against 8 in the box (Bucs safety jumps in picture just as ball is being hiked most of game)

3-3 at the 27: Fasani gets excellent protection but floats ball to Walls who gets hit as ball arrives (woulda been a penalty on Terry I believe for not lining up on LOS)

Panthers get ball back with 2:34

1-10 at the 32: Bucs in cover 2; Smith for 3 yards

2-7 at the 35: 8 in box; Fasani floats to wide-open Moose for 10

1-10 at the 45: fake to Smith then fake reverse, Fasani then throws terrible looking INT (apparently doesn’t see safety who unlike ours stays in deep coverage)

HALFTIME 3-3 (Bucs have moved the ball pretty well but get hurt by sacks, fumble, holding call, Peppers; Panthers pretty much go 3 and out all half, poor pass protection, Fasani is late with all his passes – floats every ball? Had not seen this from him before this game. Running game never gets untracked.)

Smith with nice return of KO to 37 but Hankton gets penalty

1-10 at the 27: 2 splits, 2 backs, Moose in motion; Bucs blitz 2 from the right side; Smith off LG for 16 (Bucs guess wrong; they musta figured we’d try a pass to get Fasani going; Fox probably told henning to commit to the run)

1-10 at the 42: Smith for 3 over LG

2-7 at the 45: same formation as play before (Smith lines up behind right tackle with H-back directly in front of him), this time instead play going back to the left, H-back circles o/s tackle and seals LB who bites to the left; Smith takes if off RG for 7; nice looking play (got some momentum going)

1-10 at the 48: Smith up the middle for 1

2-9 at the 47: play action and roll to the right; Fasani throws first ball with some authority and hits wide-open Moose for 18 yards

1-10 at the 29: Smith off RG for 3

2-7 at the 26: play action; great protection; Fasani just misses open Moose at the 2 (Aikman says henning thinks we can complete some nice passes if we can get into their safeties as, at least the one, takes bad angles at times)

3-7 at the 26: 2 TE, roll right; looks like designed run for Fasani who picks up 9 after awesome run – shoulda been stopped 3 yds short

1-10 at the 17: Fasani 5 step drop; blown dead due to Delay of Game (rookie mistake); is this the drive killer?

1-15 at the 22: 2 split, single back; draw to Smith for 4 (McFarland gets hurt – yippee!)

2-11 at the 18: play action, Nesbit does that pull block protection (Aikman has a better name for it but I can’t remember it: “counter-gap protection?”) , anyway Nesbit gets blown over similar to James the previous week, Fasani tries to dump to Hoover to avoid sack; Steussie get 15 yd penalty after the play is over (if the delay wasn’t, this is the drive killer)

3-26 at the 37: 5 split out (empty backfield); QB draw for 3 (decent/safe call to get better field position and no turnover; Bucs just to quick); 47 yard FG; Panthers up 6-3; used up about 7 minutes of 3rd Q

good defense/bad punt/Panthers get ball at own 45

1-10 at the 45: sweep to Smith, gets 9; Moose with a great block to seal corner; good looking sweep with 3 blockers paving the way

2-1 at the 46: Hoover up the gut for first down

1-10 at the 43: Hoover up the gut for 3 (Panthers are starting to pound the #1 defense in the NFL!)

2-7 at the 40: Hoover in motion; play action and roll to the right; nice pass and catch to Walls for 7 (henning getting compliments from Collins and Aikman)

1-10 at the 33: Moose in motion, counter-gap protection by Nesbit (works well this time and picks up blitz); Fasani looks for Moose deep but he is covered, checks off to wide-open Walls but misses him; Moose was flagged for illegal motion but Bucs decline

2-10 at the 33: Smith for 16 over LG; Goings with a nice block

1-10 at the 17: Fasani rolls right (possibly a designed run); looks like it will go for some but CB or Safety comes up to get big shot on Fasani and stop for 1 yd (Fasani seeing stars); (henning wants TD, abandons reason and nearly gets his only QB killed)

2-9 at the 16: sweep to Smith gains 5 but Hoover gets called for holding (Rice destroyed Hoover); Nesbit gets crushing block; penalty is the drive killer

2-19 at the 26: draw to Smith for 2 (henning probably is concerned that Fasani is still seeing stars as they call a TO after play to check him out)

3-17 at the 24: draw to Smith for 4 (Panthers settle for FG and don’t risk turnover or big sack); FG 9-3; Panthers control ball almost entire 3rd Q; defense is revved up

4th Q (oh shit!)

1-10 at the 16: Smith off LG for 4

2-6 at the 20: sweep to Smith loses 2; Steussie misses picking up man otherwise play has a chance

3-8 at the 18: Fasani to pass and gets good protection but can’t find receiver; Hoover gets overpowered by Rice who sacks Fasani

Great punt (net 55 yards) but Bucs are able to march to 52 yard FG

1-10 at the 24 with 10 minutes left: Smith up the gut for 1 (Bucs defense has picked it up and is crunching our running game again)

2-9 at the 25: 7 step drop with decent protection (Magnum gets beat, Fasani has to throw quickly); comeback route that is covered well, incomplete

3-9 at the 25: Fasani to pass and gets excellent protection; tries to force ball into receiver, INT

Bucs have first and 10 at midfield, get a first down but the Johnson forces a pass and Howard gets INT (finally a little luck. We might win.)

1-10 at the 32 with 7 minutes left: Smith for 1

2-9 at the 33: Smith for 1 (Panthers are playing clock; scared of another INT; this sucks)

3-8 at the 34: Fasani to pass; Nesbit with counter-gap protection but gets beat; Fasani scrambles for about 5

Bucs get ball with 4:15 but go 3 and out; punt to Smith with 3:01 at the 40 who gets stripped (stupid! Fair catch at the 40 and the game is virtually sealed, is sealed with a 1st down (unlikely))

Bucs get tying FG

1-10 at the 24 with 1 Smith loses 1 (what is thinking here? Run out clock?)

2-11 at the 23: play action; Nesbit gets overpowered, Fasani flushed and throws ball away (would he have been better to take short sack than to stop the clock? Looks like he thought he had a receiver across the field but then realized he was looking at INT and then overthrew on purpose. Probably good decision at that point but a short sack woulda been better)

3-11 at the 23: 7 yd pass to Hoover (?? Playing clock and field position)

you know the rest

 

Summary:

First half offense got shut down due to no passing or little running game. Pass protection hurt – 2 big sacks and Fasani was late and floating balls. Don’t see this as henning’s fault other than possibly: 1) why was Fasani floating balls? Aikman commented that henning had said before game that Fasani was waiting too long to make the easy passes (Walls at back of endzone) and that was something they had worked on (didn’t work); 2) pass protection? Bucs just overpowered us at times. Caught us once with a blitz and Rice comes untouched – Smith missed assignment? Bucs were actually moving the ball pretty well but looked kinda like the Panthers when Weinke’s at the helm. Moving the chains but not scoring points.

Second half, Henning play calling is excellent in 3rd Q and Panthers move ball well against #1 ranked defense. Henning mixes in just enough passes and QB runs to keep Bucs guessing. Running game executes well. Commentators are gushing about hennings play calling. Couple of big penalties stop any chance of TDs (one just plain stupidity the other cuz Hoover was overmatched – we could be looking to upgrade that position next season).

4th Q, I don’t think play calling is bad until the last attempt when it didn’t look like the Panthers knew what they wanted to do (probably were just wanting to kill clock and try to regroup in overtime). 1st drive, Henning tries to continue with the run game at start of 4th Q but it gets shut down and on 3rd and 8, Fasani gets sacked after not being able to locate an open receiver. Bucs get decent field position, drive and close to 9-6. 2nd drive, Smith is shut down on 1st creating 2nd and long. Henning calls a couple of passes and the second one goes for an INT. Panthers get break with INT of their own. 3rd drive, henning becomes gunshy (can’t say that I blame him), tries a couple of runs probably hoping that they can get a 3rd and short before they try to pass but Bucs shut us down. Still the game is won by the defense on Bucs next possession but the Smith fumbles punt.

Terry has much, much better game. Strange that Bucs didn't blitz from his side like Atlanta did all game long (off-hand only remember one blitz from his side).

 

I already noted that the playcalling was working somewhat in the start of the second half - the first time we've come out of the half looking as if we'd adjusted and it's week 8. I wouldn't call it "excellent", by any means, but it was efficient and would have looked competent had we had an experienced QB.

Henning stresses rainbow passes, apparently. That's what Dee Brown remarked about, which, if so, is pretty fucking poor.

I'd love to be able to at least move the chains. I think that's the frustrating thing about this - we're looking to be ball control and yet we can't get first downs. Certainly we don't have talent to continually move downfield, but enough to do it more than we do, and yet we don't try. We give up.

>>and the call a swing pass on 3rd and 1; johnson throws slightly behind receiver which is enough to destroy play

Generally, one would assume that needing a yard and getting Alstott in space with the ball with shoulders squared is enough to get a few yards. The throw being behind doesn't give them as great of a chance, but interesting you fail to remark that Grant knocked him back.

>>“counter-gap protection?”

Yes. It's a zone scheme. It's designed to look like a playaction pass and then quickly develops as a zone blocked scheme instead. Often leaves a doubleteam on a player that doesn't need one and a reach block on a guy who does.

 

you're up late mag.

i went through this exercise to try to determine for myself how bad the play calling is or isn't. you have a tendancy to exaggerate in order to make your points on henning. this gives me something closer to fact to base my judgement on.

>> I wouldn't call it "excellent", by any means, but it was efficient and would have looked competent had we had an experienced QB.

when you control the ball for an entire quarter against the #1 defense in the NFL, i'd term it as i did "excellent." we were stopped by penalties not bad playcalling. agree, that Fasani hurt us greatly at QB in that game.

>> Henning stresses rainbow passes

that would be worrisome. but why would he want you to rainbow a 2-step drop, quick hitter to Moose (don't know the proper terminology)? i think something was going on with Fasani. it was like he was trying to be extra careful to make sure his receiver was open and then he'd lollipop the ball over to 'em so they wouldn't miss it. it was weird. i think he can throw the ball better than he showed. i did not expect such a poor performance from him.

>> but enough (talent) to do it more than we do, and yet we don't try. We give up.

hopefully this is discussion and not argument. i'm searching for the greater truth here. i don't think i agree on the talent issue considering Fasani and Tampa's defense. I didn't ever see us give up except when: 1) we were sitting on our own goal line with 3rd and forever, 2) after a penalty had put us in 3rd and forever, we'd settle for improved FG position as opposed to taking a chance of losing the FG, 3) the last drive (series) where we looked clueless. It did seem Henning got scared after Fasani's second INT. Considering fasani and tampa's defense, i thought it reasonable to give up on 1 and 2. #3 is a bit of a concern primarily because it looked so inconsistent as to what we were trying to do. if we wanna run out the clock and go into overtime, then do it and don't try to pass.

>> Generally, one would assume that needing a yard and getting Alstott in space with the ball with shoulders squared is enough to get a few yards. The throw being behind doesn't give them as great of a chance, but interesting you fail to remark that Grant knocked him back.

was that to Alstott? if so, it would make more sense but wouldn't it have made more sense to let him just dive into the line. I didn't spend time studying the defense. If it was Grant that stopped him then it was just one of several really good plays he made. Offhand, I thought Grant looked awesome out there. my point was simply that it was kinda a weird play call for them (probably just trying to loosen us up on third and short situations) and Johnson made a poor pass; otherwise it mighta gone for a first.

>> Often leaves a doubleteam on a player that doesn't need one and a reach block on a guy who does.

but everytime i have seen the panthers run it, Nesbit (James) weren't getting any help on the guy they are pulling to block. it seems to be working about 50% of the time, which would seem to be bad %'s.

 

>>you're up late mag.

Not for my tastes. I'm usually up around this time, but not often that much later.

>>i went through this exercise to try to determine for myself how bad the play calling is or isn't. you have a tendancy to exaggerate in order to make your points on henning. this gives me something closer to fact to base my judgement on.

It's possible to suggest that you had preconceived notions, just as similar arguments could suggest that of my thoughts as well.

Still, this was for the most part a little better than it had been. It had to be - after promised changes, and after noticing that to win this game, we had to take better advantage of opportunities since Fasani was hit or miss, or miss, or miss, or miss.
That middle section of the game was competent - not excellent, but again just my opinion. Excellent playcalling is, IMO, like saying this offense was explosive. It wasn't. It was able to play its style of ball, field position, and did it well for that quarter. Execution was good, as was spirit of the team. But it seems like the ability to be fired up is passive - it's reliant on the defense as a rule. Shouldn't have to be that way.

But the odd thing is that we tend to be conservative against defenses both good and bad - and we tend to have similar output. And when the game's on the line, we still crawl back in and do bizarre yet over-cautious things that don't work.

>>i think he can throw the ball better than he showed.

Certainly. We'd all imagine that. I like his arm - I think taking away his running hurt him greatly and showed us all where he really is without it - and I don't honestly believe he'd make it more than a few games being average as a scramble first QB before he gets put back into this position again. So now in my mind, it reinforces some of the things I saw him lacking - experience/development, vision, pocket savvy, and added "tentativeness" to it. Didn't pull the trigger.

But then again, Peete was tentative. Weinke was tentative. I never remembered any of the three being this timid throwing the ball. So I won't go as far as assuming that it's a unified problem where the constant is this year's team/coaching, I do find it odd and somewhat off-putting.

>>was that to Alstott?

the Grant hit was on third and 1, to Alstott right flat...whether it is or isn't the one you're referencing? I couldn't tell you. I decided against any sort of tape study on this one. I'm trying to stay positive on Fasani and it'd be hard to do watching this again.

>>but everytime i have seen the panthers run it, Nesbit (James) weren't getting any help on the guy they are pulling to block. it seems to be working about 50% of the time, which would seem to be bad %'s.

It's zone, so there would be no help. In most situations, you're assuming that the guard can get out and pull to drive/hit the lineman going upfield, because if not you're allowing a free hit on the QB.
Anyway, the idea there is that once you contact the lineman coming upfield, you can drive him outward and, you'd expect, out of the play and out of the QB's line of sight.

 

This is the point I was probing for in the other thread, Mags. Is Henning taking our QB's who may have decent passing mechanics (or maybe throwing style--not sure how to label this. In essence, the inherent ability to throw frozen ropes.) and forcing them to unlearn what they have learned, in order to teach them to throw rainbows? If so, is he not actually degrading the talent we do have at the quarterback position, whether he realizes it or not?

 

what type of pass was supposed to be "rainbowed?" Quick outs and slants? doubt it, he's talking about the deep ball. That's what henning wants to happen, he wants the D to key on the run, put 8 men in the box then throw it up over their heads on a deep route. Once that happens a few times, the run game will open up because they won't be keying on it. Problem here is that none of the QBs throw a good deep ball and none of the receivers are fast. You could make a legit arguement that they don't have the talent to run this offense right now.

One of the other adjustments Ds have made besides bringing a safety up for run support is jamming the receivers at the line and playing real tight coverage. They are taking away the number one read and forcing the QB to go into his progressions...which takes time...which is another reason there are more sacks and holding calls. Ds know that even if a db is beat on a short route, the reciever won't have the speed to take it to the end zone.

An absolute necessity in hennings offense is fast receivers. that should be off season priority number one. I really question the move of dropping bright...given he was a project but give him a year or two before you give up on him.

 

what good is a fast receiver if you don't have a QB that can get it there? QB is top priority. that doesn't necessarily mean we use our first pick on QB. fast, quick receivers that can catch are a huge need. TE and FB both need upgraded. if foster is dicey RB becomes a huge priority. otherwise, i think our skilled positions on offense are in pretty good shape.

wouldn't be surprised to see them use a pick on another CB. cousins is the man. he is quickly becoming my all-time favorite CB on the panthers. but you have to wonder how long he will hold up the way he throws his body around.