Piper's Precamp Top 53

beuerline running? yea. wasn't pretty and it wasn't for far but he did at least to start going forward rather than just caving in the pocket. for example, the QB draw vs green bay to win the game. i think if you go back and look at the tapes of the games you will see a noticeable change after Seifert came. maybe the stats you are so fond of will prove my point.

i don't like stats. i think capers once said they are for losers, which i think Moose and Beuerline were/are.

i've seen plenty of rookies and i've very rarely have seen a receiver that dropped as many balls as Moose. the guy has bad hands. i think your being blind to the facts. so what are the stats? how many dropped balls do they have him for vs the average for the nfl. just curious. still won't change my mind. the only thing that would change that would be for him to start catching the ball.

moose led the nfl in receiving in 2000? now that's amazing considering how awful Beuerline was that year. but maybe it was just Bline was throwing interceptions and fumbling the ball but still getting enough completions that Moose had good stats.

i honestly hope i'm wrong about the guy. it's not a grudge issue it's just that i think he has already shown his true colors and will continue to disappoint.

 

>>maybe the stats you are so fond of will prove my point

They don't. A grand total of 124 rushing yards. And the GB game, that was a draw. A suprise. (Me at that time: No you fool! No. Yes!) I figured that's what you were talking about. He actually did the same thing vs the Rams the next year. But let's not pretend he was running away from pressure. It was a called play.

Beuerlien was a better player that year, or rather the same player. We just surrounded him with 3 high quality recievers. Moose being one.

>>i've seen plenty of rookies and i've very rarely have seen a receiver that dropped as many balls as Moose.

I've seen plenty and ususally rookies struggle with drops. See every first round WR pick from last year. Or think of Plaxico Burress. Bad hands his first year, much worse than Moose IMO. Now he's a 1,000 yard reciever who shut Shannon Sharpe up.

Most fans expect a lot from rookies. They expect rookie of the year numbers, and no mistakes like drops, when in fact, there are only a handful of players that are productive thier first year, particularly from skill positions. A lot of guys take a couple of years to develop.

>>so what are the stats?

Not an official stat. But considering his production from 1998 to 2000, if their were a few drops, he certainly caught enough to make up for it. I just don't remember things like you do at all. I remember an emerging star, our lone draft success, making the Pro Bowl and being a playmaker 3 years running.

Now, is he the most talented reciever in the league? No, he's more of a workhorse, physical reciever than a burner. But he's the best we have, and he really has to come in and revert to his 98 to 2000 form for our offense to do anything. Expecting a guy like Bright to come in and do it is a bit much.

>>it's not a grudge issue it's just that i think he has already shown his true colors and will continue to disappoint.

We all hope he has a better year. And if he has another one, well, he may have peaked. But I think what you are saying leads into the "what have you done for me lately" theme in the NFL. And that's the way it should be. A couple of 1,000 yard years doesn't guarantee you anything. But it shouldn't detract from what you were.

 

>> Expecting a guy like Bright to come in and do it is a bit much

again, my point is simply that i'd rather go with a Bright who may not do crap than a Moose who quit on the team and IMO has never been a team player. i'd rather have 53 no-talents playing for the team than an a-hole that thinks it's all about him and quits on the team when the chips are down.

>> Most fans expect a lot from rookies.

You probably got me there. I was hoping for a lot from the guy as he was a high #2 pick. So I was probably more disappointed than say if Bright were to start dropping balls this year. But if Bright drops balls like Moose, then I'll probably have even less use for him than Moose.

>> They don't. A grand total of 124 rushing yards. And the GB game, that was a draw. A suprise.

and that compares to how many rushing yards he had in previous seasons? how many yards had he gained as a Panther before Seifert got here. My point wasn't that he was rushedfor a lot of yards in 1999, it was just that he was at least rushing for a few yards. I'm open to you proving me wrong. I could be. I don't have the stats to support my opinions. Yes, I already stated it was a draw. How many coaches before Seifert's staff had the guts to call a QB draw for B.? Can you look that up in your stats? And after he ran it, other teams had to at least consider defending against the possiblity that he might try it again. And that was the thing about his starting to take off our of the pocket in 1999. Although, it didn't go for far, sometimes it did result in 1st downs or at least positive yardage so that teams had to at least think about maybe staying in their lanes, which helped the OL.

>> Beuerlien was a better player that year, or rather the same player

how many fumbles and interceptions did B. have in 2000 vs 1999 (and particularly the second half of 1999). and, how many inside the 10 year-line? my memory, which you have already have assailed, says that he was much worse in that regard in his 2000 season, which i think was more in line with his pre-1999 seasons.

>> Not an official stat.

Too bad. I think it would support me. Again, I just remember him dropping too many balls that were right at him over the seasons. You can't have that from your top receivers.

>> But I think what you are saying leads into the "what have you done for me lately" theme in the NFL.

As bad as I hated the many dropped balls over the seasons, the thing that soured me probably more about the guy is what has seemed to be a constant series of selfish remarks to the press over the years and his stopping on routes last season. My impression is that he is not someone that I would want as a teammate. His offseason misfortunes I guess would give me more ammo as to his character, but I don't really care about all that stuff. I'd just like to see him start keeping his mouth shut, continue battling when things go south and start catching the ball when its thrown to him.

 

Headcase...well, the name obviously fits!

 

>>and that compares to how many rushing yards he had in previous seasons?

He had roughly the same number of rushing yards in 2000, where he played a full seaon. He took a whole bunch of sacks each season. Irregardless, he didn't get many first downs either year. We are talking about 7 yards a game.

>> Beuerlien was a better player that year, or rather the same player

>>how many fumbles and interceptions did B. have in 2000 vs 1999 (and particularly the second half of 1999).

You missed the point. We surrounded him with better players in 99. He had Moose, Jeffers and Walls for a full season. In 2000, he had Moose, Byrd, and Mangum/Crawford for much of the year.

You surround him with 3 impact players, you get him some semi-decent protection that we gave him the second half of 99, you get production out of him. You give him no protection and take away two of his top 3 recievers, production dips.

But back to you point, the big difference between 99 and 00 was TDs, not turnovers. 99: 12 fumbles (not all lost of course), 15 Ints. 00: 9 fumbles, 18 INTs. Very similar. It’s the 36 TDs that made the difference in 99.

>>Too bad. I think it would support me.

Doubt it. There's just not enough throws to lead to that many drops, when you look at his production. That, and I don't remember things as you do. So it's my memory and stats vs. the memory of a head case.



As far as the rest of it, his comments pale compared to most star WRs in the league (Moss, Carter, Owens). He wants the ball, that's the thing. It doesn't help him that he drops the ball when we do, but he can't get through it if we don't get him the ball.

And the dee coy business was a joke. Seifert admitted as much, that he started it. A bad one when we are losing, but not the incident it was played out to be.

Anyway, last year was not a good year for him, that we agree on. But I think you are letting that bad year cloud the few years previous. Even you admit that you are "cloudy" on 2000. You don't lead the NFL in receptions with butterfingers.

 

I really don't blame anyone for last years mishaps, just glad it's over.
Maybe I would blame the staff before anyone else. Seifert was so distant and that seemed to spread throughout the organization. There was just no concentration appearant from top to bottom. I remember seeing him on the sidelines and speaking to NO ONE!
No headset, no in-game communication, no emotion...just stale.
The play on the field reflected that.

 

>> He had roughly the same number of rushing yards in 2000, where he played a full seaon.

my question was how did his 1999 rushing yards compare to previous seasons ... before Seifert.

>> Beuerlien was a better player that year

I'll concede on this issue as I think it's probably an endless argument. It's also rather pointless anywho. Weinke is our QB for the moment and B. is gone, thank-goodness.


Hopefully Moose proves you right. I'd gladly loose that argument.

 

>>my question was how did his 1999 rushing yards compare to previous seasons ... before Seifert.

It's better, but remember the only place he was a full time starter in was Arizona. And 7 yards a game may be better than 3 yards, but either is inconsequential.

>> also rather pointless anywho.

True dat.

 

QB - Wienke will either get injured or benched by game 5, maybe 6.



He may get injured but he will not get benched.

 

From the recent press and coach talk, it looks like Mangum is here to stay. Will we cut Crawford? Put Heinrich on practice squad? Keep 4 TE's?