Panthers: You don't produce, you don't start

What merit. Are you trying to say that anytime a young player does not properly learn his playbook or develop into a true starter, then it's the coaches fault because they didn't teach him well enough? What do have to support that statement, or is it just an opinion without justification? Look, I'm not saying it's all on Chris' shoulders, but I have yet to see one valid fact to indicate the coaching staff has not done their job with Weinke. Not even Weinke has said anything to the point. Just because Weinke has struggled does not mean it is the coaches fault. You mention rumors, what rumors, and where do they come from. Just because you don't like a decision is no reason to accuse the coaching staff of deriliction, unless, of coarse, you can support the accusation.

If you believe Weinke is your QB of the future, then why the hell are you allowing the rumors to persist? Will you not defend your guy? [/QUOTE]

Uh, have you not heard Fox clearly state that they still see Weinke as the QB of the future? Seems to be defending him to me. It's not as if Fox can come on these message boards or rag sites and personally delete every baseless rumor, nor should he.


They've made questionable personel choices in both the draft and in FA so far. Signing a bunch of nickel backs instead of a starting quality CB, putting a band aid on the QB position, signing "He Hate Me" instead of Skip Hicks when you need a quality back up RB. [/QUOTE]

So tell me how many starting level CB's were out there who were willing to play for the dollars we had to spend? I'm sure Fox would have loved to sign higher level CB's, but we were limited by the cap, and of those who we could afford were either nickel backs or their skills have eroded to the point their play does not match their name (i.e.Davis). So before knocking a decision, look at the alternitives.

As for "He Hate Me", what do you know about him? Do you even know anything but the nickname he used in the XFL? If not, then maybe you should do some research. He is an exceptional Gunner on Special Teams, in fact, his ST coach at Philly said he may be the best at that in the league and pushed hard to keep him. and they also felt he is a competent RB, but he just got caught up in the numbers game...Philly is overloaded with good RB's. Basically, he was brought in to fill the Bates roll. Anything he gives at RB is a bonus, his primary function will be on ST.

 

Plus " He Hate Me" came back after a sucessful suicide attempt. Top that!

 

Oh yeah, I forgot we were still in that period where John Fox can't do any wrong

 

Wiggin, you're so far up Fox's ass maybe you should change your handle to hemmoroid.

So it's not the staff's job to insure their players are ready for game day? If that's the case Seifert would still be here after the team rolled over on him the last two games. As stated earlier by another poster, the playbook wasn't even completed in mini camp, is that Weinke's fault also? The staff looks as ill prepared as Weinke does at this point.

As far as Fox defending Weinke, he made ONE statement and the rumors have persisted. New ones seemingly come out daily. Fox remains silent fearing what he says may be held against him. He's afraid the press may start thinking he's in over his head. Think about it. He was a hot prospect two years ago and interviewed for a couple of jobs, then last year zip, zero, nada interest in him. Could it be the other owners didn't like what they heard? Didn't think he could pull it off? This year, the only interview he had was the Panthers. A fucking 1-15 team was the only one that would talk to him.

We couldn't afford anybody else? Ever heard of a restructured contract? Maybe cutting Gilbert's fat ass? As far as Rod "he ain't so" Smart, he got more press for his nickname than for what he ever did on the field. So Philly's coach gives him props for ST play, WTF has that got to do with anything? Maybe he was the best they had, but shit wasn't Cooper something like third alternate to the Pro Bowl last year? Didn't see Smart being mentioned anywhere in that conversation, he's nowhere close to Cooper as a ST player.

 

Schroll, grow up. Does anyone who disagrees with your opinion have to be up the coaching staffs ass. Maybe you should try backing up your thoughts instead of just attacking what you don't understand.

>>So it's not the staff's job to insure their players are ready for game day?

Think about this for a second, and read. Where do I say that??? Nowhere! In fact, I actually said its not necessarily all on Weinke, but that I have not seen ONE (1) thing even suggesting the staff didn't do all they could to teach him. I will admit that I don't know how much responsibility is on the coaches and how much is on Chris. But since I have seen no facts to back up your attack, I challenged you to find proof, and you did not. So it comes down to a blind attack on your part.

As for the statement itself, of course its the coaching staffs responsibility to make sure the players are ready...at least as ready as they are capable of being. However, the players also must have the ability to do the job, as well as they must do the work required to be ready. Did Weinke? Who knows, I would assume so, but to lay all the blame on the coaching staff is foolish...especially without any facts to support it. Or are you suggesting that everyone who ever tries out for an NFL team should be starter quality, otherwise its the coaches fault? Jeez .

>>As far as Fox defending Weinke, he made ONE statement and the rumors have persisted. New ones seemingly come out daily. Fox remains silent fearing what he says may be held against him.

Good God man, do you really think that NFL coaches spend their time rebutting every rumor that comes out about one of their players. Hell, do you even think they have the time to hear them all. If Fox was concerning himself with these ridiculous rumors you read on rag sites, then I would be concerned. I think he has more things to consider than what the National Enquirer of football thinks. And it's nice that you can read his mind, and know his fears . I guess John Edwards should be worried.

>>We couldn't afford anybody else? Ever heard of a restructured contract? Maybe cutting Gilbert's fat ass?

Gee, I never thought of that!!! Look, we filled other holes with the money we had. The economics did not allow us to fill EVERY need. If you honestly thought we could, well, lets just say I'll be amazed.

>>As far as Rod "he ain't so" Smart, he got more press for his nickname than for what he ever did on the field. So Philly's coach gives him props for ST play, WTF has that got to do with anything? Maybe he was the best they had, but shit wasn't Cooper something like third alternate to the Pro Bowl last year? Didn't see Smart being mentioned anywhere in that conversation, he's nowhere close to Cooper as a ST player.

So you are admitting you know nothing about what you were talking about. You ask what hhis ST coach's comments had to do with anything. My boy, it has everything to do with it. Smart was brought in for his Special Teams abilities. If we need him at RB, he is capable, but nothing special. But doesn't that also describe Michael Bates? Because that is the role he is here for. Or were you against the signing of Bates as well? At least then your view here would make some sense to me.

As far as Cooper, I agree. That is why the statement by his coach stood out to me. But Smart was not with them all year, so naturally, he would not be discussed in regards to the pro-bowl. While I doubt he is as good as Coop, it tells me he should be a damn fine compliment since Bates went down.

Now that I have probably pissed you off, I will apologize. Don't try to tell me I am up the coaches ass just because I am waiting to see what happens. You and many others don't understand the move, so are mad about it. That's fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But just because someone sees things differently does not mean they are up anyone's ass. I'm more than willing to hear support for peoples reasoning for saying this is a bad move, but I just have not seen it. Anyone who cannot see that Weinke has struggled must not have watched last year or this pre-season.

Now having differing opinions on how it should have been handled is one thing, but attacking someone because they don't agree with you is wrong. I don't know if this is the right move or not, but I can see the rational behind it, so will support it. If Peete really struggles, and Fox does not adjust, then I will begin to question him. But as of right now, we have not even played one regular season game, so there is no way to know his decision was wrong. You can think it was wrong, or believe it was wrong, but until the games count, you cannot KNOW it was wrong.

 

Look dude, the MAJORITY of people posting on this subject are in disagreement with you. You still can't find it in yourself to even question Fox at this point. You see us questioning Fox and rush to defend him without even attempting to rationalize what we are saying. Reread the entire thread, no one has said Weinke shouldn't hit the pine should he continue to struggle. What we do say is there should have been a plan in place since apparently Fox had no faith in Weinke coming in. There wasn't one. If you're not sure your QB can get the job done, you place your faith in some one who couldn't even beat out Bobby Hoying? Shit man, the Raiders drafted Tuiasasopu and Peete couldn't beat him out either. Your comment about Peete being a mentor in Oakland is laughable. Did Peete turn Gannon into the Pro Bowler he is today?

Where are the Weinke rumors starting? Seems to me that they are coming from inside the organization. The fact he was being benched came from some one on the inside before Fox had even called either QB to notify them of the change. The media knew before they did. A hell of a way to inspire the guy to do better. Did it ever cross your mind that Fox may have made the statement simply to cover his inept ass? If he doesn't want him here, cut or trade his ass for what you can get for him. Why keep him here to bail your ass out should things backfire? You are making the whole thing boil down to Weinke, there's a bigger picture to be seen here. You're just unable or unwilling to look at it.

Add up what we spent bringing in CB's, you'll find the sum to be about $2,393,750 (Cousin,Taylor, Vinson, Israel, & Jenkins per Wp28's site). Don't tell me we couldn't have made a better offer to a quality guy back there. Cutting Gilbert would have I think maybe added another 480K to the deal. Throw in a restucture or two and you'd have over 3 million to sign a quality guy.

BTW, Smart doesn't last the year on the roster. Bet on it.

 

T_Schroll, going out on the limb a little calling Fox inept before he has lost a game, aren't you? If he kicks this team's ass into shape I'll be sure to remind you of your first impression. So far Weinke has lost 15 out of 16 as QB. Fox is 0 for 0 as head coach. Wait awhile and then the majority might be right but I doubt it.

 

You don't think he's been inept at handling this particular situation?

Weinke and Weinke alone is responsible for 15 losses...Pul fuckin leeze.

 

W is 15 losses out of 16 as QB. Fox is 0-0 as head coach. At least on the surface one, or even two, would tend to think that W is the one who is inept not Fox.

 

I think now would be a good time to use Meat's quote -- "If we could weaponize the stupidity in this thread, we could win the war on terrorism." yea, and cure cancer too. jesus, how irrational can things get?

Wiggin -- kudos for your repeated attempts to agrue logical thought.

i gotta go eat so i'll leave you with this seemingly absurd thought to ponder. what if Peete wins tomorrow (and doesn't get hurt)? do we still string up Fox?