Panthers: You don't produce, you don't start

It’s not the signals that bothers me. It’s not even whether it will harm Weinke. That’s not my problem at all. It’s the fact that they seem to be wanting not a square hole, but a round hole. It’s the execution

1. Bringing in Peete over other Free Agents. The reasoning is he knows the offense. In fact, only he a Scott Mitchell know the offense, because Henning’s offense hasn’t been run since he was a coordinator. Is this offense so complicated that you have to have less than average talent playing the system, just cause they know it? I’d feel more comforatable giving the keys to a Ferrotte or Batch than a Peete, no matter the experience.
2. Peete’s done exactly what now. He’s barely even played. Peete should have had more time in the preseason.
I don’t think Peete’s going to play more than a game or two. I don’t think he can take the hits, or has the physical ability to make any plays. Fasani is still #3, and he won’t develop very fast as a #3 running the scout team. So in a couple of weeks we will be back where we started at week one. Weinke can either learn the playbook on the job, and get better, or prove once and for all that he’s NOT the future, and we can demote him permenantly. All this is doing is delaying that action a couple of weeks. Hopefully, by the end of all this, we will have Weinke and Fasani 1 and 2, or Fasani and Peete/Weinke. But Peete, Weinke, Fasani, nothing is really getting settled there, other than giving Weinke a chance to get his bearings. At this point though, I’d rather have a trial by fire.

 

Panthers: You don't produce, you don't start


The same can be said for the coaching staff.

 

What mixed signals? Fox & Co. have been nothing if not consistant in what they have been saying. They will put the players who give us the best opportunity to win on the field. Period! They said Weinke has not learned the play book well enough, so he will sit while he learns. What's inconsistent about that? They also said Weinke is the QB of the future, and they are still saying that. They have only pointed out that Weinke needs to sit and learn for a while, not that he is no longer the long term answer. I am actually relieved that they are willing to do what's best for the team, and not the easy or passive thing.

And for those that say Peete doesn't give us any better chance to win than Weinke, and thus Fox must be nuts, well, your nuts. Weinke is a rookie who struggled mightily with the blitz last year. That had nothing to do with his injury, but had everything to do with being thrown into the fire before he was ready. Unfortunately, he has not shown much improvement in adapting to complex defenses. Sure, he did well in the first two pre-season games when teams were still very vanilla, but as soon as wrinkles started to be thrown in there, he was horrific. In both of the last two games, he blatenly locked onto receivers, signaling to the defense exactly what he is going to do. To assume that will change once the regular season starts is ludicrous, so just how would it benifit us to keep him out there? Not everyone learns best by OJT, sometimes they need time to take it all in before they can begin to put the pieces together. And as Fox & Co. have said, this does not mean he is not the long term answer, just that he needs to step back and learn. Seems reasonable to me.

As for Peete, he is a veteran who has seen whatever teams can throw at him. Therefore, he is better prepared to deal with it, and sould make fewer mistakes than Weinke. That's not saying Peete is great by any stretch of the imagination, just that he should respond better to the defensive schemes that will be thrown at him. That in itself should give us a better chance to win on Sunday.

 

It's doesn't matter really, without Foster, our offense will suck. If a defense doesn't respect the run, the QB can't do much.

We know the Ravens will blitz, a lot....so this could save Weinke from a season ending injury.

I really really don't see Peete being able to last the game, so I'm curious who the back up "really" is late in the 4th down by 6.

 

Most of us aren't as much upset with the benching of Weinke as we are about what Fox is setting himself up for. Some people let their alligator mouths overload their hummingbird asses. follow the process from day one. Fox was supposed to have said Weinke wasn't his man, then he praises him. Next Henning states Weinke compares favorably with Herrington and Carr, no need to draft a QB. Weinke has surgery, misses time. Weinke plays well the first two games, everything is fine. No mention of the playbook struggles. Game three and we haven't even practice blitz pickups per Rozinski, Weinke struggles. Game four he's yanked after two series. Fox and staff proclaim Weinke is still the future and bench him. henning follows a day laterwith statements this offense is nothing lile Peete ran in Detroit. Now the produce or be benched mantra. He sounds like he's in over his head.

 

That’s kind of my point, too. It’s less about Weinke, and more about my fears about Henning and Fox. I want to see a plan, and see it executed. Not flip-flap from week to week. Maybe this is just a shot across the bow, maybe he’ll learn from it.

 

I wouldn't be surprised to see Peete get hurt, and Weinke play Sunday.

A Weinke come from behind would certainly get things exciting.

So - Here's to Peete going down hard!!

 

Why doesn't anyone get it, this is not about Peete, it's about Weinke and who gives us the best chance to win this weekend. Bottom line is that Weinke greatly struggles when defenses play anything but a straight vanilla defense, so he makes a lot of unnecessary mistakes like telegraphing his passes and locking into one receiver. While Peete is no world beater, he at least should be able to handle the different looks, and make fewer mistakes...which translates into a better chance to win. So this is nothing more than giving Weinke time to learn with less pressure while the QB that gives us the best chance to win plays...FOR NOW!!! It's an immediate move, not long term.

And just how good of a mentor would Ferrotte or Batch be? Ferrotte didn't seem to do so well with Griese, and Batch...please. Batch makes so many unforced errors and bad decisions it's no wonder he can't keep a job for more than a year. If Fox & co. were looking for a replacement for Weinke, then I agree that Ferrotte would probably be a better option than Peete, but we're not. We wanted someone who could be an effective mentor (which Peete has shown himself to be in Oakland). Never has anyone inside the Panthers said this is a long term decision. In fact, I have gotten the distinct impression that they really want Weinke to step up and retake the position. But it's not going to be handed to him. If he wants it, he is going to have to show he is deserving of the QB of the future label.

2. Peete’s done exactly what now. He’s barely even played. Peete should have had more time in the preseason.
I don’t think Peete’s going to play more than a game or two. I don’t think he can take the hits, or has the physical ability to make any plays.[/QUOTE]

Peete has shown himself to be a good mentor. Heck if he was not unworthy to be #2 on a Superbowl contender, why do Panther fans think he is not good enough for us? I agree that I don't think he will play more than a game or two, I just don't think it will have anything to do with hits. I believe the plan all along was to get Weinke some much needed time where he could just sit and watch during a "real game" to learn, then hopefully he will be ready to be re-inserted as the starter.

Fasani is still #3, and he won’t develop very fast as a #3 running the scout team. So in a couple of weeks we will be back where we started at week one. Weinke can either learn the playbook on the job, and get better, or prove once and for all that he’s NOT the future, and we can demote him permenantly. All this is doing is delaying that action a couple of weeks. Hopefully, by the end of all this, we will have Weinke and Fasani 1 and 2, or Fasani and Peete/Weinke. But Peete, Weinke, Fasani, nothing is really getting settled there, other than giving Weinke a chance to get his bearings. At this point though, I’d rather have a trial by fire.[/QUOTE]

You said it at the end, this gives Weinke a chance to get his bearings. He needs to sit back, get his head straight, and get a different perspective of what is going on on the field. He was never really given that option last year, and I think it has stunted his growth somewhat.

As for trial by fire, didn't we try that last year and this preseason. Personally, I don't think it took. As I've stated elsewhere, he struggles when defenses become more complex, and he tends to retreat into either locking on one receiver or dumping it off. I think this gives him a chance to regroup, study, and hopefully make himself more ready when he starts again. And if so keen on trial by fire, why not just start Fasani and let him learn that way. Personally, I don't think he is ready and needs time as a backup to learn, but can't the same be said of Weinke?

 

Man, you said it. That is the real issue, no matter who we have in there, our offense will be predictable until Foster comes back and opens things up.

The only place I have seen this said is on PFT, and they are no better than the National Enquirer of football. They may hear a rumor that Fox is not happy about the speed in which Weinke is picking up the offense, and they report it as Fox saying Weinke is not the man, and we will look elsewhere in the off-season. You throw enough mud, and eventually some will stick...or even just a little might.

Heck, they reprted a while back about how dissapointing the Panthers are in Peppers, then recently said they feel he can be great...of coarse they then have to throw in a commentary that it is probably only an attempt to deflect attention away from the "mistake" of not picking Harrington. Those guys are absurd, they hear a third handed rumor and report it as fact . I take whatever they say with a grain of salt.

Weinke plays well the first two games, everything is fine. No mention of the playbook struggles. Game three and we haven't even practice blitz pickups per Rozinski, Weinke struggles. Game four he's yanked after two series. Fox and staff proclaim Weinke is still the future and bench him. [/QUOTE]

In the first two games, the defenses were very vanilla, but in the 3rd and 4th games, the defense was much more complex. So while doing well the first two games is fine, it's more of the 3rd & 4th game defenses we will see in the regular season...so they should carry more weight. I also don't think it was his actual performances in those games as much as his decisions and the way he handled the pressure. He consistently made poor decisions and locked on one receiver in both games, not showing the ability to respond well. Add that in with the fact that they were some of the same problems he had last year, and I think they just felt he has not progressed as well as they feel he should have. Whether it's not knowing the playbook or just not being able to handle pressure, I don't know. But I do feel confident that if Weinke does well in practice, he will be given another shot by the 2nd or 3rd game. If he still does not improve, then it may be time to look elsewhere.

 

The mixed signals are plain to see, don't ask what or where. There are three different things going around, three plain and clear ideas. The point of it is this: some of the reports say that Fox was never sold on Weinke. It would be easy to let a quarterback fail. The more mixed signals that are out there, the more they want to point to this one. There will only be more mixed signals as time goes on.

y2 had a hell of a point as well - it's Weinke's job to learn, but it's also the staff's job to teach. Hell, Musgrave spent an offseason in Arizona helping Lewis. You don't think it's too much to ask for Henning or McCoy to call once or twice to see how it's going?

>>That’s kind of my point, too. It’s less about Weinke, and more about my fears about Henning and Fox.

Yep. Like I'd have replied to Larry if I hadn't gone to sleep last night before 4. it's not as if I'm all about Weinke. But he's still our most talented and able player. A little struggle like the last two weeks isn't out of the question if you're looking to develop a player, and there's a concern that they're not looking to do so in a timely manner.

>>Why doesn't anyone get it, this is not about Peete, it's about Weinke

No it's not Wiggin. It's about WINNING according to them, right? And both Y2 and Piper are making points to the basic fact that Rodney isn't our best possible shot if we saw this coming.