Panthers sign Ryan Kalil to six-year deal, making him NFL's highest-paid center

Post links or it is only your opinion in my view.


PS" and we're not any more fucked cap wise than most other teams

 

I never said Cincinnati, and I don't remember him saying Cincinnati. He said he'd rather go to the team he wanted to go to, than go anywhere else for more money. I also brought up Braylon Edwards, another player on your list, turning us down for less. I brought up Santana Moss negotiating a reasonable contract, and then taking it to Washington to match.

I'm sure there are more. It'd be heartbreaking to know that Wilson, for instance, turned down a similar offer for us, but I doubt we'd ever know anything like that to be true. It'd be tough to hear if we struck out trying to be reasonable with outside FAs. I have no idea.

I never said "every single free agent available would have turned down offers from Carolina." I remember the last time I started challenging you on you attributing false statements to me, and you started posting punctuation because you didn't want to talk about the same things you've brought up a number of times since.

Past that, it's more than a hair disingenuous to LIE that I said "every single free agent would have turned down offers from Carolina", and yet try to prove yourself right by saying that any, and every, free agent would take exactly 20% more to come here and that the other team would never have a chance to match. You also scoffed at the idea that, instead of 20%, that I'd suggested more.

After ignoring that two of your own players had directly stated either they chose to go elsewhere or wanted to go to a specific team for less money.

Being as how I never said it, I'd guess none of this is true, to follow your logic. Plus, you keep trying to make this my issue, when you're the one who's gone on tons of angry tirades about the personnel man in question, to tons of people now. Challenging that instead of validating that is a big problem, to you. Sorry about that.*

Yes, up to six years later you were wrong. I'm sure if I put up a fight about any person on the roster or staff, that person will be gone eventually.

No, you're just out of control and expect two separate realities. One where you treat people like shit, and one where you whine on about getting your feelings hurt because someone said "sorry about that" on twitter.

Jake was never a free agent when he was here, so that's a leading question isn't it?

But sure, he's paid a lot of money to guys who, outside of Delhomme, were going into prime second contracts. More than others? Outside of this year, there were no ways of knowing what others would've given, and in this particular situation, the only way we know anything is

• Charles Johnson's twitter (which is always, and I mean, always, a great source)
• Ray Edwards' getting the shaft (to go to a good team)
• you saying so

I expected and anticipated Johnson's contract. Even you, as determined you are to lay out a case in a courtroom where no one important is listening, and no one's on trial, initially expected 6 years, 60 million for Johnson. Again, I'd have been happy with a signing on Williams' level that wasn't at a stacked position. In a year, two years, it won't be stacked. Until then it's still a nice luxury. That we didn't let 2 Pro Bowl players, and 2-3 other players that have caught the edges of Pro Bowl potential, walk because someone said "OMG 2-14", is OK for me. It might not be for you. Try not to piss and moan about it in every thread until you die.

 

Show me where I have posted anything positive about what the Panthers have done this off season. They over paid for Johnson. Ok, I stated on a few threads that Williams was a luxury we didn't need and stated I wanted on may threads I wanted Marcel Darius over Cam. Would have loved Seatles DTR but he went elsewhere. Did he contact Carolina? WHo knows?.

Are you a season ticket holder? Didn't think so. I have two seats since day 1.

 

http://www.thisboardrocks.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2651185#post2651185
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6...olina-panthers-agree-six-year-72-million-deal
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_18556269

Yes, the Panthers are. Did you miss the part where Carolina has far more money tied up in 2012 and 2013 than any other team in the NFL? No one else is even close.

 

You referenced MMQB as your source, and that column stated that Jenkins would rather sign with Philadelphia for a little less than go to Cincinnati. But again, we don't know how much more he was looking at, or how he felt about Carolina. I heard Kris Jenkins on the radio saying that he thought his brother would be interested in playing here, but who knows. The point isn't that the team should have gotten Cullen Jenkins specifically, but that there were tons of talented free agents out there this off-season and yet the Panthers' biggest signing was Olindo Mare.

True, I apologize. You did bring up those players, but what I will note is that I cannot find corroboration that Carolina actually offered either player anywhere. If you have any links on that, I'd like to see it, but it's ok if not.

It doesn't sound like Hurney even really tried with anyone of consequence, probably because the plan all along was to spend like a drunken sailor on players already here. Again, there were a ton of talented guys available, and the Panthers came up with Olindo Mare. That's not just frustrating, it's inexcusable. When you have the second most cap room, your best free agent signing cannot be a kicker.

That's the implication. Your excuse for the Panthers not signing anyone significant was that maybe no one wanted to sign here. Obviously no one did sign here, so it's either Hurney's fault or else no quality free agent out there was even interested in playing here.

I never said anything of the sort. The Shadow Free Agency thread was a theoretical exercise to show what the roster might have looked like. 20% extra in annual salary is a hell of a lot, and it's reasonable to believe that such an increase would persuade players to come here. Not everyone, certainly, but many.

Yes, it's a pattern with you. You believe that it's your responsibility as a fan to lie and pretend that pretty much everything the team does is either a good idea or at least defensible. You've been that kind of homer throughout the team's existence. And absolutely anyone with a brain and rudimentary knowledge of the NFL would conclude that Hurney has done a horrible job. National analysts and columnists routinely criticize him for handing out absurd contracts.

You were wrong about Seifert the whole time, and you were wrong about Delhomme the whole time. You defended both because you're a homer.

Now you're lying again. I never said you hurt my feelings, I said that you taking an unprovoked shot at me on Twitter when we'd barely spoken in over a year was proof that you were obsessed and bitter towards me. It was, and you are.

Sure, it's leading, but the answer is also obvious. No one was going to give anywhere near a 42.5 million dollar contract extension, and remember that was just months after he posted one of the worst playoff performances in the entire history of the NFL.

 

Hurney has been a disaster, but this is what we've got. NFL execs aren't always hired/fired on merit.

 

OK, so apparently he said both "wanted to go where he wanted to go for less money", and Cincinnati. It was a direct ideal of a player you wanted saying he wasn't interested in a little more. Doesn't mean every player wouldn't, and certainly we know not every player would. I don't know that 20% would do it but that's aside from the point, and if every player had shopped themselves to every team after the first offer, there'd have been a lot more guys getting the shit end like Edwards did, or worse.

I know a quick check of google brought a lot of links on Moss. Edwards I can't find. Clearly we went after Floyd, too. All of this was around the time we ended up signing Naanee, but Moss' timeline is before that.

Again, it's dressing it up how you want, with that wording, whereas they said beforehand they wanted to keep their core. I'm not happy with the Mare signing, but they did do a lot more than that, even just at tight end. Again we'll never know if they could've tried to hook a Cofield,

funny, going from you telling what I (didn't) say to telling me my 'excuse'. I don't think it's a secret to anyone paying attention that they wanted to stay in-house with most signings. We did sign outside FAs, so I couldn't have possibly implied "no free agents", and I'll only say that I disagree heartily that any and every player was sitting around waiting to see if Carolina would give exactly 20% more so they wouldn't ask their signing team to match.

you didn't list exactly the players you wanted? You never suggested that any of those players had other motivators than money and that each of them could be had as if it were an auction that you, and you alone, received the final bid on.

again, we don't know what constraints we're working under. Given that every major contract over the last four years was internal, I don't know that he had as much say as you do. Some contracts I'd like back, some aren't that big a deal to me compared to you. To me, it's not an ongoing referendum about Marty Hurney, which is what this is to you. This is the genesis of these arguments, and then you work backward to why something is or isn't right, and that's not intellectually honest, nor is giving me shit for not validating it. That you have to get whiny and attacking about it, I just let that go. If not, by now all our heads would've exploded. It just doesn't carry that much weight.

Couldn't have been I believed in what I was arguing. You always have to come up with silly motives for someone disagreeing with you, like there aren't other reasons.
BTW, our first argument over Delhomme of consequence was money, in 04. The first huge one was you trying to say random FAs could be as good or better as he went to the Pro Bowl. It took catastrophic surgery to get you an honest chance at sitting there with a told-you-so, so congrats on sitting around for five years to claim the same victory you claimed as you were suggesting a player who was going to go to the Pro Bowl (and playoffs).

I said your feelings were hurt. Because you whined about it over and over again, and you're still hurt over it. Three words "sorry about that - from a guy who very regularly gets very personal. You expect to be treated better than the way you treat people. You can dress it up and excuse it, but you do what you want to, but then you're kinda fragile about it coming back at you. Not that attacking people is "intellectually honest", but you can't sit there with a straight face and pretend you haven't given ten times more shit than you've gotten, and yet you're the one unhappy about three words on twitter toward someone you attacked.

 

This is very true unfortunately...

 

A lot of guys did. Hell, what teams gave out a huge contract this off-season besides Carolina and Jacksonville? There might have been one or two, but I can't remember anyone else. Well, Indianapolis for Manning, but that hardly counts. My point is that tons of guys were signing for very reasonable prices. It's fine to say that Ray Edwards getting $5 million a season was the exception, except that it wasn't an exception at all. Mebane signed for that, Jenkins signed for that, and so many others signed for about that much. I'm batshit insane about this precisely because so many good players signed for reasonable contracts with other teams, while Marty Hurney committed not only the 2011 cap but also the 2012 and 2013 caps to re-signing a 2-14 roster. That should make any true Panthers fan furious.

Olindo Mare and Ron Edwards. Wow, that is some earth-shattering shit for a team with the second most cap room entering free agency.

No, because you're too smart for that. You argue dumb shit when you feel like you need to side with the organization, because in your mind that is your responsibility as a fan. Again, it's why you ended up being so wrong about Seifert and so wrong about Delhomme. Some people are wrong because they lack knowledge, but that's obviously not you. You know more about football than I do. A lot more, in fact. Where you fall down is in failing to put that knowledge above what you wish to be true.

You're still lying. You taking an unprovoked shot at me didn't hurt my feelings. We're not friends. I pointed it out because it illustrated that you're obsessed with me and incredibly bitter about past arguments, just as I pointed how much you posted about me during my absence proves the same.

I don't. Hell, if you think I'm awful to other people, you should hear what I say to myself in my own head. I hold other people to account, and I would be disappointed if someone else didn't do the same with me. But you taking a shot at me on Twitter behind my back wasn't about that, it was about you acting out on bitterness and obsession.