Losing my religion for equality

Interesting question. I assume you equate socialism with a kind of jackbooted thuggery, like most American conservatives seem to do? (FYI, socialism exists right now, as we speak, without those qualities. In fact, it is becoming a bit of a broken record, but the GDP in 2008 of the socialist EU surpassed the mighty USA for the first time.)

But there is no inherent reason that religiousity be tied only to conservatism. Certainly, there are many religious liberals.

If you are referring to a more philosophical form of socialism, then that is EXACTLY what the majority of Jesus' message was all about. Help your brother. Lend him a hand when he is down. Don't covert his things and do unto him as he should do unto you. Add the extra touch of "A kingdom awaits you after death" and that is about the only difference between Jesus' message and general socialist philosophy.

You are breaking the stereotype. I can respect that. I know it must get a lot of eyerolls from your more traditional family members when you start talking.

 

No, my understanding of socialism is that the assets (GDP) of a country flows to the government, who in turn redistributes those assets to the people as needed. Is that wrong?

You've lost me. I thought we were discussing Jesus as a socialist liberal. If Jesus is the government, He is a theocracy.

To me, the difference is in the redistribution of wealth. In Socialism, the government takes everything and distributes everything. In the Kingdom of Heaven, the people provide for each other willingly out of love and compassion, not out of obligation. At least, that's the picture the Bible paints of a world led by Jesus as I understand it.

Probably more than I realize. Over the 10 years I've been posting on this board, my fiercest debates over religion have been with other Christians. I'm lucky enough, however, to belong to a church who also fights the Southern Baptist stereotype. Our pastor has taken a lot of heat for it, too.

 

That's more the extreme end, which is communism. In communism, EVERYTHING belongs to the state. That is a failure waiting to happen. Over time, no group of individuals is smarter than the market.

But how many Republicans really believe in that world? It is world of smiles and compassion and love for strangers. Seriously, how many conservative Republicans (especially the men) truly live and believe in that world?

Just off the top, you have to remove the free market conservatives. You won't catch the vast majority of them wasting precious seconds in that fantasy land. You can also remove the warmongers. They hate everything and dream in blood. Then you remove the shallow opportunists and the soulless clingers-on and what do you have left? You?

Nothing I respect more than people doing their own homework honestly and letting the chips fall where they may. In your intellectual journey, I suspect there is still a line you won't cross, isn't there?

 

Sadly, not nearly as many as would call themselves Christians.

I sincerely hope not! I think there are thousands of Christians worldwide who "get it". The problem is, we've been discussing ideals, and this is obviously a far-from-ideal world. For the world to work as the Bible paints it, everyone has to be on board. That's probably why it's a theocratic monarchy, not a democracy.

What do you mean?

 

In your journey to truth, breaking the stereotype by using logic and historical evidence, will you take it wherever it leads? Or will you revert back at some point in the future if the evidence begins to show you things that are uncomfortable, considering your upbringing?

 

For the record, my upbringing was the stereotypical hypocrisy/judgment thing. That's what turned me away from Christianity in the first place.

To answer your question, yes -- my philosophy and desire has always been and continues to be to follow the truth, at least as best it can be defined or proved. I say the latter not as a cop out, but because in my experience absolutes are damned hard to find. Much of what is called fact and truth is really deduction. I plan to follow it wherever it leads...


...even if it leads to the flying spaghetti monster. Or nothing.

 

Excellent.

Start with this: A=A

The Law of Identity

Cause and Effect

 

The lifeworks of these two two men essentially encompass American perceptions of natural phenomenon:

Principia Mathematica
Special Relativity

 

And then there is subnatural phenomenon.

Quantum Electrodynamics

 

Thank you for the links. I look forward to going through the material -- looks very engaging.