Jesus, Horus & Zeitgesit

Is it just me or is this week slow? Thought I'd throw something in the pot to pass the time.

Finally watched Part One of the Zeitgeist movie, the one dealing with the similarities between Jesus & Horus, and the alleged astrological basis of both the egyptian and the crhistian religions. It's a typically well done sales job, but it did spark some intellectual curiosity. I did a lazy search and it looks like we haven't tackled the topic in a few years, so maybe it's got some legs.

Any takers? I guess you'd have to watch the thing to debate it, which might offend some people. Unless someone has a way around it. If you decide to, just skip ahead to the 10:00 mark (where part 1 starts with a Gerald Massey quote), 'cause the beginning is a natural sedative.

The astrological stuff was the most interesting. Thought it would be fun to read both sides, the more researched, the better.

For the more sensitive readers, a disclaimer: I am in no way promoting the assertions of the movie beyond my general boredom and casual curisoity. This is in not way intended to be "deny this truth" spam or a chuck and duck.

The board's been slow, so I thought I'd toss in something somewhat spicey.

 

Horus swallows.

 

religions steal from each other all the time. dunno the specifics claimed, but considering the jews don't hide their connections to egypt, it makes perfect sense that their religion would be influenced by egyptian ones.

 

There are more similarities between Jesus and Mithras.

 

The astological symbols in medieval Christian art, I found to be quite interesting (particularly the cross and golden 'sun' behind Jesus).

Many of their theories, however, have more holes than Swiss cheese.

I researched several of the early gods they mentioned with similarities to Christian theology, and I was unable to substantiate about half the claims regarding Horus, Attis, and others. The December 25th thing can be tossed away completely. Most Christian scholars and theologians I've read cite Jesus' birth as probably being sometime in mid-Spring, and usually sometime in April. More to the point, IIRC the dates of Christmas (and Easter) were established by the early church after the conversion of the Roman empire in an effort to take over the established pagan religions most Romans and Greeks observed.

The ties between Egyptian, Greco-Roman, Arabic, and Judeo-Christian theologies are not surprising. These cultures have interacted to one degree or another for millenia, and it's only natural to think that some doctrines would be shared by some or all at different times.

 

They compare Mithras and several others in the video.

 

First off, thanks for watching the video Hasbeen. I know that was probably offensive.

See, that is the way I remembered things. The significance isn't the date of birth as the video says, but the date of celebration. The fact that it is celebrated on the 25th gives strong credence to the assimilation of pagan traditions, which makes sense in historical context, if it doesn't scare of the literalists and send the extremists into a rage to admit that there are some pagan traditions mixed in with traditional Christianity.

The part that I found very interesting was the discussion of the 'death' of the sun on the solstice... I had never heard/seen anyone postulate that before.

As above, some would find it offensive, but it just seems obvious that Christianity did not survive its infancy in a "pure" form. It's only logical that as it spread across different cultures and tribes that pagan traditions intermingled (not necessarily replaced) with its core story.

Or, you could always take a more universalist approach and assign all the similarities and coincidences to re-tellings of the same story, though that does do damage to the holy trinity of Christendom. It's kinda intriguing though.

 

I have to confess, I only got through the first half hour or so.

Here's the difference that stood out most for me: Horus, Isis, and many other examples were purely legend (how many demigods has anyone witnessed sporting the head of a falcon?). Jesus -- regardless of what one may believe about His divine nature -- was a real person.

Furthermore, He had no control over the timing of His birth, nor did He decide when to die. He predicted it from the beginning, sure, just like prophets had for centuries before He was born. But it's not like He committed suicide or even a crime to earn crucifixion (which, BTW, has neither Hebrew nor Christian origins. Crucifixion was a practice the Romans brought to the scene in Jerusalem. Where they got it, I have no idea.).

It's asking a lot to write the points made in the video off to coincidence, I know. But to seriously consider the alternatives, for me, is just too much of a stretch. Too much supported data has to be overlooked to make their hypotheses work (the dates, for example).

That being said, I still found some of the parallels and history very interesting.

Edit: Consider the following from Exodus 7:5...

Would it be unreasonable to ponder whether some of the Egyptian legends may have been a result of the events referenced in this verse?

 

I watched all of it that it was possible to watch. It stopped in the middle of a sentence at the 1-36-23 mark, & I couldn't get it to continue, even by pausing & moving to different points in the film. GRRRR!

The whole thing was fascinating, though I'll have to do a lot of reading around to substantiate or argue any points. The 2nd & 3rd parts are much more political & not related to religion (at least not directly). But as to the points made about parallels between Christianity & historically earlier religions, I had heard/seen/read much of that before.

Christmas & Easter in particular seem to have been "assimilated" by Christianity in order to entice large pagan populations to convert--populations who would strongly object to giving up the celebrations they normally observed at those times. In fact, if you look up the term "Easter," you'll likely run across the word that it came from: Ishtar.

The "death" of the sun at the winter solstice is still very much a part of pagan observations & symbology--which some take more literally, some more metaphorically.

It was interesting to me that the filmmakers seem to argue at one point that Jesus was not an actual historic personage at all. All the evidence I recall supports his existence, at least, even if the details of his life & ministry are still a source of debate.

Edit: After I closed out of the film & went back to it, I was able to watch the whole thing without a problem. And WOW--lots to think about!

 

i don't know what so shocking about the idea that christianity borrowed from the religions that came before -- or even that christians intermingled their own cultural customs into the mix.