I voted aginst the Arena

All us dumbasses are getting a new arena with tax dollars, so nana nana boo boo stick your head in doo doo.

 

thank you for admitting your defeat.

Putt- motel/hotel and car rental taxes havent increased every year. as a matter of fact, this deal is solely based upon projections from the current tax stream. so you are lieing, at least right now, when you say taxes have increased b/c of the arena.

and you seem to ignore the fact that the old coliseum and the old convention center property will be back on the private sector's onus- therefore, the city will not pay for maintenance on those buildings and will earn property tax and other tax revenues from those properties- this money will go to schools and other sectors funded by our general fund. and the redevelopment of these properties will also contribute to our local economy. factor in that to your equation.

 

I never admitted defeat.

Our government is using tax dollars for something I feel they have no business doing. OK they did, and it might be legal, bla, bla, bla. I don't think they should do it.

And if they have the money to do it, they collect too many taxes. They should give me my fucking money back.

I feel very strongly about this, and I honestly believe that people who feel differently are pretty much suckers and sheep that got ate up by the wolf and said 'thanks'.

 

LJ said:

and will earn property tax and other tax revenues from those properties

That's taxes, LJ. I'm sure you don't see this the way i do, but it's taxes. I'm not happy that they will earn more money, i prefer they spend less, period, always, every time. The argument that this saves me money is crap, because government grows and grows and grows. The more they earn, the more they'll need to tax me later, because the bigger they'll get and government growth creates yet more government growth.

Government begats more government. It's proven. It's the way history works. If you think I'm wrong, do a taxation analysis for the last 70 years, and you'll see I'm right. Do an analysis of government spending as compared to GDP.

I'm actually astounded that I have to point this out.

 

you are lieing, at least right now, when you say taxes have increased b/c of the arena.

Did I say that ?

This is what I said---Thats cause they already have been year after year. That is not a lie and I certainly don't like being called one for something I never said. The hotel- motel tax has steadily increased which brings us to the surplus you speak of. Do you think that I meant that some how people could see in the future and raise them just to get to the point we at now. I don't think it was nice of you to interpret what I said and then call me a liar.

 

i guess i misinterpreted your comment. in context, thats what i thought you wrote:

i thought you were referring to the arena. my mistake.

You make a valid point and i respect where you're coming from. however, whether it be right or it be wrong, the fact is that the arena referendum, which was non-binding, was voted on in june 2001. that november, practically every anti-arena voice on the council sans lochman was voted off the city council. new council people, who swayed pro-arena, were in office and had a chance at renegotiating a deal that had been voted down 57-43 due to many factors (bundling, ownership hatred, player disgust, private-public partnership etc, car rental tax increase etc..) this deal has $100 million of investment from the private sector, public land going into private taxpaying hands, and no increase in our current tax rate, and no property taxes. yet, it solves some problems in our city- luring in young professionals by providing more entertainment options, strengthening the urban core, allowing the city to be more competitive in conventions/sporting events, and getting a major tenant while we have the chance to grab one. i see this as an opportunity cost worth taking.

 

This is the crux of the problem. Other city governments have taken the liberty of getting into the business. Now, our local government feels pressure, and also can state precedence. Government begats more government.

After all, if other municipalties hadn't done this, I'll guarantee you Charlotte wouldn't be the pioneer.

It's a problem that I feel is much bigger than what you mention. And government only grows - each time something like this happens, it makes it easier to do it again and again. It's what's happened with government for the past 70 years. The boiling frog syndrome.

 

i see this as an opportunity cost worth taking.

granted it is ---but don't grease that baby up and shove it up my ass and then try to convince me it ain't tax dollars helping private enterprise. It's exactly what it is and people should say it. It don't matter if you for it or against it.

 

i dont disagree with what you're saying and you're viewpoint. BUT- for charlotte to stay competitive and continue to stay as an attractive city for people to move into, what do you recommend as an alternative?? sports and entertainment can be huge factors in where people determine where they live.

i cant tell people how to feel and have no right to tell you what is personally right or wrong. thats up to you to decide, and i respect your right to state your opinion. i just felt it necessary to get the details out on why I think it is a solid deal.

 

Meat- it is saving you money. If those buildinngs weren't in private hands tax money would be used for its upkeep. In private hands they genrate money and don't call on your money for it's upkeep. That simple math. Government growing yes- that's a different subject for a different board however.


If not the arena then what? This money by law has to be spent on a tourism related project-It can't be used for schools, roads, or firefighters. So I'm asking what other project could we use this money on that would have as great an impact on our local economy and spur economic growth?

If your against it because you can think of a better investment for the money I can respect that but, If it's just no with no better option or ideas than you have lost the arguement/debate as far as I'm concerned.