I am watching the Braves...

well sure i'd like to see them have won 12 rings in that same time. is 1 enough? well i'm not pissed at them so i guess so. they have ran into some hot teams.

91' kirby puckett and jack morris combine for those final 2 games and braves lose 4-3 in the series

92' lose world series to the blue jays and joe carter, who won again the following year

93' lost to the phils in the NLCS who went on to lose to the blue jays

94' strike

95' won the world series 4-2 over cleveland....first year for wildcard teams

96' lost world series to the yankees 4-2 after winning first 2 games

97' lost to florida 4-2 in NLCS

98' lost to padres 4-2 in NLCS

99' swept by the yankees in the series

00' swept by cards in divisional series

01' lost to arizona 4-1 in NLCS

02' lost to giants 3-2 in divisional series

03' lost to cubs 3-2 in divisional series

so heres the tally

lost 4 of 5 of their world series appearances during the streak. but, since the yankees are SO great, we can excuse them of that one, right? so down to 2. well, the blue jays won back to back, and woulda had a shot at 3 if not for the strike, right?. so down to 1. and was kirby puckett, jack morris and the rest of the twins come back not a destiny thing, right? so....we'll excuse them of those 4 losses. besides, it was in the series which is a hell of an accomplishment.

of the 7 seasons left, they went out in 2 of those to teams who went on to win the world series. marlins and dbacks. so, we can say they got beat by the best that year there.

down to 5 now, and the giants came within a whisker of winning it all last year so we can add that one to the list.

down to 4. i'm gonna throw the cubbies in there this year, because they were hot as hell and have currently the hottest 1/2 pitching combo around.

so that leaves us 3. philly in 93', padres in 98', and cards in 00'.

philly had one hell of a team in 93' and RS can go more into detail about them.

i'll leave those 3 however as BAD losses, that they should have won. the cards series was horrible and pathetic. shoulda beat the padres IMO. and philly was tough but they should have handled them.

as for the rest, we've either lost IN the series, to someone who eventually WON the series, or in the giants case, came within a few innings of winning the series (minus the cubbies for now, but now that you cub fans are reading this you should be getting excited).


all i'm trying to say here, is if you say they keep choking then minus a few horrible series losses along the way, THEY ARE CHOKING TO THE BEST TEAM IN BASEBALL FOR THAT YEAR!. i dont' see that as choking.

 

26, you make a lot of good points.

I guess that since I'm not a Braves fan, I'm not emotionally tied to them and I see things a bit differently.

If you heard Jim Rome's show today, he basically said the same thing I've been saying all along. He said that, yes, the Braves have run into "hot" teams; but how come THEY weren't the hot team?? How come the fans of THOSE teams aren't saying, "damn, we ran into a hot Braves team and thats why our team didn't win the series in the post season"?

As to your last point, I'll just say that even though they usually lost to the eventual World Series winners, THEY should have been there. They were usually the BETTER team in the series but lost.

So, I guess I do look at it differently. If the Cubs had won 12 in a row, considering their history, I probably would be very happy too. It probably wouldn't bother me to have lost so many times in the post season.

 

turbo, you make a good point there. why we were never the HOT team. that is one thing that does rub me the wrong way about the braves. they have grown accustomed to their success and at times have a "there is always next year mentality". the fans do to, as evidenced by the large # of cub fans in atlanta. that is shameful.

like you say, if it were reversed and your cubs had won 12 straight divisional titles and 1 series, i imagine i would feel the way you do. we could most likely just swap posts here and this conversation go very similar to this with me calling them out, and you defending them.


oh well, there is always next year....

 

long post alert...

91 should have happened anyway, "ask Charlie Liebrandt, Lonnie Smith, and Kent Hrbek".

96 should have happened, we had the Yankees beat.

00 was pathetic, the Cards weren't that good that year.

I say it's time to blow this team up completely and play the kids. Maybe Cox will go back to managing small ball, which what wins in the post season.

Here is my 2004 dream Atlanta Braves:

1B Julio Franco
2B Marcus Giles
SS Rafael Furcal
3B Mark DeRosa
LF Chipper Jones
CF Andruw Jones
RF Darren Bragg
C Johnny Estrada

RSP Russ Ortiz #1
RSP Kevin Millwood (FA) #2
LSP Mike Hampton #3
LSP Horacio Ramirez' #4
RSP Adam Wainwright (10-8 3.37/149.2;133 hits, 128 so/3.45 S-W)

CP John Smoltz
8LP Kent Mercker
8RP Will Cunnane
RSP Kevin Gryboski
LSP Jung Bong
RP Jaret Wright
RP Paul Byrd (long relief to start, otherwise Wainwright in this spot)

C Henry Blanco
INF Jesse Garcia
INF Wilson Betemit
OF Donzell McDonald (.254 31 SB)
PH Matt Franco

Payroll at start of 2004: @$77 Million
Payroll at end of 2003: @$106 Million

I would be the second coming of Whitey Herzog with the "jack-rabbit" squad with everyone in motion, pressuring the defense, and allowing Chipper and Andruw to get hitter's count pitches.

The starters will only have to go 6, because you have Mercker, Cunnane, and Wright who can get people out prior to Smoltz.

 

Bump Update...

Here is my updated dream 2004 Atlanta Braves:

Position Players First Base Chipper Jones Javy Lopez at same money could also work here. Both have taken balls at 1st Base. Fick is gone.
Second Base Marcus Giles Put up with errors for bat.
Shortstop Rafael Furcal If only he would stop swinging for the fences. Can put up with the occasional aggressive error.
Third Base Mark DeRosa Vinny will not have another offensive season like that any more.
Left Field Donzell McDonald .254/31 SB at Richmond, Chipper plays here if Juilo Franco, Robert Fick, or Javy Lopez is playing first.
Center Field Andruw Jones unpopular trade bait in Atlanta. Must keep him here.
Right Field Gary Sheffield Only at same money, otherwise cheap outfielder or Darren Bragg.
Catcher Johnny Estrada Everyday Catcher.



Starting Pitchers #1 Starter Russ Ortiz Earned right to be front of rotation.
#2 Starter Kevin Millwood He will return to Atlanta for about the same money as before to get out of Philly.
#3 Starter John Smoltz Power Pitcher if arm holds out, which it should.
#4 Starter Mike Hampton Figured it out at end of year.
#5 Starter Horacio Ramirez Potential #1 down the road.



Relief Pitchers Closer Jaret Wright Will Cunnane could win job in Spring Training, other is 8th inning person.
8th Inning Left Kent Mercker Has enough left for role and would be cheap.
8th Inning Right Will Cunnane Jaret Wright could be in this role if lost closer.
Specialist Left Jung Bong Ray King does nothing for me in this spot, but may stick around.
Specialist Right Kevin Grbowski Better in this role than Trey Hodges.
Long Relief Adam Wainwright 10-8 3.37/149.2;133 hits, 128 so/3.45 S-W



Bench First Base Julio Franco What a person to have on the bench.
Infielder Jesse Garcia Backs up the other 3 positions.
Catcher Henry Blanco 2nd catcher.
Pinch Hitter Matt Franco Professional hitter.
Pinch Runner Wilson Betemit Speed to burn.

 

One world championship in 38 years in Atlanta.I guess that is better than the Red Sox or Cubbies.Of course one of those teams may just get that championship this season.

There is always next year Braves fans!!!!!

 

BTW,

The Braves franchise has had one world championship in each city: Boston, Milwaukee, & Atlanta.