hurney

Differences of opinion are when you debate two legitimate perspectives. This isn't that. This is about you being proven undeniably, unquestionably wrong and yet being completely unable to admit it. Again, you've been this exact same way for over a decade now. This is just a part of your personality. You have presumably been handicapped throughout your life by this total inability to admit your mistakes, even to yourself, much less anyone else. It's why you're also delusional about viewing yourself as an angel and people like me as the devil.

No one is suggesting that Hurney is Two Face flipping quarters to let chance decide what player he signs. There is a colossal difference between having a plan and having a long-term plan. And as for evidence:

* Drafting two RBs in the first round within three years.
* Drafting QBs with the first pick in consecutive years.
* Drafting a MLB with the #9 pick just after signing Jon Beason to an expensive extension.
* Drafting five WRs in three years.
* Doing virtually nothing to address DT or CB over an extended period.
* Signing 34 year old Jake Delhomme to a 5 year, $43 million extension while grooming no eventual replacement.
* Letting Peppers walk for nothing.
* Signing a 28 year old running back to a 5 year, $43 million extension when you have RB depth already.
* Then signing that other RB to a 5 year, $37-42 million extension.
* Being flush with cap space going into 2011 and yet have the biggest free agent signing be Olindo Mare.

Where's the plan? If he has a long-term plan then he must be schizophrenic because it's not discernible to the rational person. Seriously, I don't think you've ever explained what you think the long-term plan is, you've just blindly insisted that there is one. What do you think the plan is and what is your evidence for thinking so?

Whoa there cowboy, you have that backwards. You accused me of of lying and not answering questions only to have me point out that I actually had told the truth and had answered your questions. You also made up fake quotes from me. Meanwhile I repeatedly use your actual quotes. Your "corrections" are you trying to insist that the things I quote mean something other than what the English language says they do.

Oh really? So what exactly is this?

Interesting. And that's far from the only time you've said such things. You repeatedly say that Marty Hurney is just a conduit and doesn't actually make the decisions himself. You keep painting him as a glorified secretary.

Because he's the general manager, and because most of his fuckups are things you can trace specifically back to Hurney learning under Bobby Beathard.

You don't claim that Richardson just has input, as I would have no problem with that statement. You claim that Hurney "could be reassigned and there would be little structural difference in what he does." That statement means you do not view Marty Hurney as an actual general manager, and your other statements back up that view repeatedly. You continuously insist that Hurney doesn't make decisions himself and is there just to collect input from other people.

"I've suggested, many times now, that yes, I felt JR wanted Armanti."
"I'd say that it's my opinion that JR wanted Armanti"

Did you ever post a quote from before this thread where you said that JR had nothing to do with trading picks? I've asked you several times to produce such a quote since you claimed that you had said so "many times" before. Interesting how I answer your questions and requests, but then get incorrectly accused of ignoring them by you, meanwhile you completely ignore repeated requests from me.

Polian left of his own volition, while Seifert & Capers were undone by their coaching. And I never said that Richardson had "nothing to do" with the team. Why do you keep lying about that? I have repeatedly and consistently said that JR loves the Panthers and is intimately involved with the team. But it's ludicrous for you to pretend that he's the real decision maker as some sort of "secret GM," while Marty Hurney isn't a general manager at all. Again, you have agreed with someone else saying that Hurney is "a yes man." You've also stated that "he could be reassigned and there would be little structural difference in what he does" and that "Hurney is there because he wields just enough power but gives a lot of it away."

Let's be perfectly clear. My problem is not with you saying that Richardson is involved. I have always agreed that he is. My problem is with you pretending that Hurney isn't a real general manager, and thus isn't the one ultimately making those decisions. The mistakes Marty keeps making are the ones that he learned under Bobby Beathard in Washington.

 

you mean like earlier this week when you lamented how vicious you've been?

I've admitted many within this thread, even as it relates to misquoting you. When I more or less had the gist of the quote right, you didn't want to talk about that, you wanted to whine about the quote being wrong. And I owned that. While you mangle my words every post, and tell me what I "really mean" that's not quotable.

What you quoted is still a long term plan. I don't see in any way how you sign a shitload of players longterm and have "no plan."

Charles Johnson, Deangelo Williams were free agents, BTW. OMG LIES!!!!1111

I agree that Mare (and Godfrey, and plenty of other moves) were poor. To typify Mare as the biggest signing is divisive, but very very carefully worded. Unfortunately for your delicate wording, every player without a contract was a free agent, which includes the much larger contracts above.

I didn't say you had to like the plan.
To say he's operated without one at all is foolish.

I got it wrong, but it was essentially the same quote. That's a lot better than this:

me saying that Richardson's framework is seen in the moves we made in 2011. BTW, he's ecstatic that we're able to re-sign our own guys. He doubted Carolina could get as many guys in 2011 as they did. You take that to mean whatever you want, but he's happy with what happened in the opening days of free agency.

you realize administration doesn't mean "administrative assistant", right? A Vice President of Football Operations is not a "glorified secretary" right now anymore than nine years ago when I first put it out there, or five years ago when you liked the idea. A promotion isn't something most people deem as a means of irrelevancy. Most VPs aren't floor sweepers or note takers.

I've made my positions clear. You can say over and over again that it means something different that you'd prefer to argue with. You love wordplay. But that's not what it would mean. I'd know, and I posted the quotes from long ago - which you ignored. Why bother trying to read what I mean?

And in what form does the word "trade" come out of my mouth in either?
Wouldn't I have to say something to mean it? You keep asking for proof that I didn't say it. Okay, here's a quote where I didn't say it:

you yourself have said Capers should've never been GM. JR and Polian never got along. JR and Seifert didn't get along. I'm sure he got along just fine with his kids, but they were gone, too. That's not loyalty. The little proof you've shown deals with loyalty suggesting he's hands-off, a link I've yet to see drawn, but just from loyalty's sake, a GM, President, Vice President is not a guarantee of employment.

And yet wanting to sign his own players is unrealistic? He's intimately involved but has no control? These are two very different things. If the idea is that he sits in on status meetings and says "sure, whatever you guys need", then we have a very different opinion on Jerry Richardson, and so does the league.

Yes. And even though I showed that those thoughts are long-standing thoughts that I had regardless of this thread, you ignored those explanations, and the ones before them. I guess you just like bringing them up enough that you don't even care what they mean.

I've never pretended he isn't a GM. I've never said he doesn't have his problems, or that he's not 100% culpable for the successes and failures. You're honestly lying about that. FWIW, I've pointed out the team concept (you like to just flat ignore what I'm actually saying, oh well) plenty. There are GMs that have less "power" than Marty, but again this isn't about "power" or "ego". The idea is to work together. I guess that's a foreign concept. You certainly don't address it.

 

I didn't feel like arguing something that seems pretty obvious, and fighting on football stuff really isn't my deal anymore.

 

Come on mags Collin followed suit and posted an attractive woman it's your turn. Kumbaya already

 

I'm finding plenty obvious this second too, actually.

 

What's that?

 

it's obvious, and yet here you are.

 

I mean, you quoted me and said I didn't have a rational argument. I gave you my rationale, which is pretty much along the lines of "because I say so." Is that not acceptable to you?

 

it seems reasonable that saying it enough times might give a real reason, but you've declined. No one's requiring you to have an actual reason.