Former Panther you'd most like to have back

My first Panther jersey was of Poole

 

Beuerlein, I really think he would be much better than Peete. He could really go through the reads to find the open receivers and was very accurate. Worst part is I thought Seifert made the right decision, I was so wrong.

 

No to Collins, or Beuerlein right now. He was a great QB here in 99, and for what he had to work with, 98 as well. 2000 saw him doing things I didn't like, and the arm just wasn't looking as good. Collins had lost his team's respect, never was a leader, and could be great if he could have those things and limit the turnovers. But none of those things will happen and I believe he ended the year rated right there with Peete. Certainly as talented as any QB in the league, could have had a career like Bledsoe and has only been a stat guy.

Seifert, IMO, did make the right decision with Beuerlein. Steve became bigger than himself after the Pro Bowl year, making some decisions about his health that shouldn't have been made. The mistake was not replacing him yet.

Brockermeyer at the time I'd have liked to have stayed. We needed a left tackle and we didn't adequately fill the position. Couldn't, not without seriously neglecting other things, but still didn't.

But Howard Griffith's the one. No matter what they thought of Collins, Griff was the offense's leader in 96. Him and the more silent AJ. There was no plaisuble reason to run an offense like that and let him go, and he added insult to injury by helping his new team onto the playoffs with the O we'd eventually run thanks in part to his abscence.

 

I disagree with that assessment magnus. maybe i'm not privvy to how steve became "bigger than himself," but that move was irresponsible. the panthers went into the 2001 season without a proven veteran QB that could provide guaranteed stability and understanding of the offense- lewis was a lithmus test and weinke was a rookie. lytle is not even being considered here. beuerlein could at least "bridge the gap" or possibly mentor weinke- something that weinke missed out on tremendously. yes, the elbow injury would've bit us in the ass- but i think we should've put the effort to reneg beuerlein's contract or retain him, just for stability.

about collins- how is he not a leader now?? he led his team to a super bowl in 2000, is respected by his teammates and hasnt been spastic in 3 years. the guy seems to have his head on straight and his character seems to be extremely improved.

here are his current stats:

ATT COM % YDS AVG LNG TD INT RAT
545 335 61.5 4073 7.5 82t 19 14 85.4

and he's 29.

 

Excellent call Howard Griffith was a team leader and a crushing blocker for our backs. Good call

 

Collins, he is by far the best overall QB this team has ever seen. He has lead team"s" to the playoffs. He throws too many picks but then again so do a few other QBs we've had that are not winners... Collins would have us in the playoffs this year... he is a proven winner.... more than twice... end of story.

 

how?? the WRs would drop his passes just as easy as they dropped Peete's

 

>>Originally posted by lj4three

>>I disagree with that assessment magnus. maybe i'm not privvy to how steve became "bigger than himself," but that move was irresponsible.

He was bigger than himself in these ways - he thought of himself and starting a game rather than what the team wanted or what was best for the team in the last two games of 2000; he had three surgeries in February 2000 but neglected the shoulder injury until July, and missed all of training camp as well as the first two games of preseason, when the surgery should have been much sooner; he later reinjured that shoulder in the first game of the year, neglected to receive aid for it, continued to play on it and his play declined because of it.

He was certainly this team's greatest leader after Sam, he was our most accurate and productive quarterback, but he did earn himself a part of being gone in a youth movement situation.



>>the panthers went into the 2001 season without a proven veteran QB

Considering I had already noted that in what you quoted, there's no reason to be arguing the point. Whether Beuerlein had or should have gone is, in essence, a separate argument from whether he was replaced well, and we know the answer to that second argument as I had noted.

>>beuerlein could at least "bridge the gap"


>> yes, the elbow injury would've bit us in the ass- but i think we should've put the effort to reneg beuerlein's contract or retain him, just for stability.

I disregard the elbow. It certainly suggests

>>about collins- how is he not a leader now??

Because he's not a leader. Trent Dilfer was never a leader either - but he also never made any black or mexican slurs in front of his line which sported both, much less the drinking problems or the lack of focus and maturity. Remember that Collins would yet again insult most every teammate in the offseason before 1998 when the contract extension wasn't picked up.

But that's not my point. As I note below, he's matured. It took two cuts and a possible benching to get him to straighten up, and he's been average at best since. He wouldn't have gotten any of those things in Carolina, and he certainly was no part of being a leader in Carolina at any point. Sam, Kevin, Eric, Howard, AJ, Carrier, some would even consider Brock, they led this team. For the extensive publication that was done in 1995 and 1996, which included details I'd consider intimate to this team, it was never shown that Kerry was anything more than quiet and reserved around the field and reckless off it. Now that he's under more scrutiny, and has a winning situation around him, he's not needed to be a leader most times, but certainly isn't. Tiki, Strahan, at a time Armstead and now Barrow, Williams, I'd guess Hamilton was, Szott, they're your Giants leaders.

>>he led his team to a super bowl in 2000,

He was the starting quarterback. Just like in 1996/Jan. 1997, there's very strong leadership and tremendous talent around him. He was a facilitator in each of those situations - rarely asked to make those plays that great QBs do. Rarely asked to take the game in his hands, which he should be able to do at his talent level. Bledsoe, a similar QB who had similar talent around him, isn't really a leader, and could have easily become Jeff George, but he's a professional, he gains and continues to earn trust.

If we were noting that he did help take a team to the postseason three times in his career, certainly. And those were his best seasons, as well as statistically banner years for those around him. If we were to argue he was a team leader on those teams, I think I have favor. If we were to argue he was a driving factor in getting to the playoffs, I wouldn't put him above his defenses or his running games. But he did what was asked of him those seasons. Noticeably, when he didn't really do as well - below average - his teams did not succeed.

>> is respected by his teammates and hasnt been spastic in 3 years.

He's matured. Respected by teammates is a give or take situation - while I'm not going to talk out of my neck like I'm in the Giants locker room, all I've seen is the Giants saying the politically correct things about their QB.

I've already provided tremendous proof that he wasn't a tenth of the leader Beuerlein was, because it'll come up for Sandy later. So there's not even much point.

Sandy:

>>Collins, he is by far the best overall QB this team has ever seen.

arguable, but there's no point, is there? You've always pimped Collins so hard you should be earning a percent and a half for each endorsement he'd get. And the Beuerlein thing is just off the charts.

>>He has lead team"s" to the playoffs.

Teams have in fact gone to the playoffs while he's quarterback. And so has Scott Mitchell.


>>He throws too many picks

Don't forget he set a new NFL record for fumbles as well. He had a better year at it this year, but he also gave the ball up four times in a game decided by three points that decided their postseason fate. The Giants certainly had to rely on other factors to win that game, Collins did not really contribute when factoring that in.

As well, when hoping for playoffs last year, Collins threw in another two and fumbled three more to help NY stay home. At his best, I'd take him, I don't have to have a leader at QB. I'd rather he not have his own fucking linemen mad at him enough to go Steve Smith on his ass, and dropping the ball consistently with games and seasons on the line is not something I want out of a quarterback.

 

Back on topic...

I'd like Fred Lane back. (may he rest in peace).

 

Willie!