fate of the faithless

Perhaps these passages have something to do with the debate then.

Proverbs 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil."

That sounds to me like Yahweh [size=-1]made some people for the pleasure of punishing them in hell, for all eternity.

[/size]John 12:40 He (Yahweh) hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them."

That sounds to me like Yahweh god actually WANTS some people to populate hell, where they can be tortured for all eternity.

More relevant verses to the debate may be found in Exodus, chapters 4-14, where Yahweh is quoted, over and over, stating that HE was going to harden Pharaoh's heart, so that Pharaoh would not let the Hebrews go, and so that Yahweh would get all the glory.

 

Those are certainly interpretations.

Not saying they are correct but they are interpretations.

The smiley I posted earlier expressed how I felt about them much better.

 

Why is there hell

There isn't a whole lot of scritpure to quote. Gidden talks about praying for the arch angle michael without stoping. Michaels response, was did u not know I was waring aganist satin? SATIN is gods rival, Satin was created by God. Satin is going to loose. NOW where are we going to put a creation of God that has a body(that lives for ever and cain't be destroyed) ???? Have U ever thought about that?

 

so if I sleep on satin sheets am I going to hell in a hand basket? :1peekdoor

 

In my opinion, there were two main reasons:

1) Justice for Satan and his supporters.

2) To act as a deterrent against sin. Literally, to put the fear of God into mankind.

 

2 Thessalonians 2:11 is a verse in a passage from Paul's second letter to the church in Thessalonica. In that particular passage, Paul is describing the end times -- when the antichrist will surface and deceive millions of people into following him rather than Jesus.

During that time, Paul is saying that because people will refuse to believe in the deity of Jesus and accept his offer of saving grace, God will basically turn them over to their desires and sort of "help" them believe in the lies of the antichrist. The idea of God turning people over to their sins is also demonstrated in Romans 1:24.

 

According to Romans 2, any who have not heard the Gospel will not be judged by it -- rather they will be judged by what they have been taught, and also by how closely they've followed their consciences.

 

There are a few wrinkles there, IMO. Imma come back to this tomorrow and toss in my .

 

I believe that's true. Every person I know has sinned (lived by their own rule, apart from God) at some point in his or her life.

I disagree with G's exegesis here. Then again, I've never been convinced of being "born with sin". A baby who doesn't have enough awareness to even comprehend authority, let alone the ability to comprehend the Gospel will not be judged by knowledge and ability he or she doesn't have (Romans 2). I think this is a companion statement to several other verses which declare the reality that everyone who's ever walked the earth with the awareness to do so has turned his or her back on God in some way, shape, or form (except Jesus).

It is. It's clearly saying that everyone who gets an audience with God goes through Jesus to get it. Now, that doesn't mean that heaven is a churchgoers only retirement home. What it means is that Jesus is the One standing at the front gate, and He says who gets in and who doesn't. If a person never heard about Him, then Jesus judges whether that person would even want to spend an eternity in His kingdom, living under His rule. If so, He lets them in. If not, He doesn't. That's probably oversimplified, but you get the idea.