fate of the faithless

Th quote Ms. Benetar - Hell. Hell is for children . . .

 

I can see how it might seem that way, based on the verses you listed out of context, but not necessarily -- see my above post from Romans 2.

That's true -- every person on the planet sins. But God only holds people accountable for what they know, including how closely they follow their own consciences.

I actually don't agree with the "born with sin" interpretation, although I know it's widely accepted in Christianity. Sin is a choice, and an infant isn't capable of making that choice.

Many Christians interpret that verse as saying that only Christians go to heaven, but that's not accurate. What it says is that the path to heaven goes through Him, meaning He decides who may enter heaven and who may not. He doesn't say you must be a disciple first.

 

There is no "age of accountability" because awareness is not universally tied to age. It's about the individual, and children who do not know the gospel will be judged under the Romans 2 statute I referenced above.

 

People can argue details till hell freezes over; & many of us seem inclined to do just that

It just seems to me that whatever may be "revealed" in scripture is both over-complicated (as evidenced by the endless comparing of one passage of scripture to another), & over-simplified (a la 'no acceptance of Jesus = condemned to hell, whether you ever heard of him or not').

Why would a supposedly loving, merciful God make seeking the TRUTH--whatever that may be--so fucking confusing?

I've known people who, like myself, have prayed fervently & sincerely for just a shred of understanding of what "the truth" is, & where any one of us fits into it. We all seem to have received different answers.

Maybe, as one minister who counseled me said, we can't rely on our own limited understanding. But in the end, that's all we've got. I don't know anybody who's received any divine revelation.

 

"Why would a supposedly loving, merciful God make seeking the TRUTH--whatever that may be--so fucking confusing?"

Well, God did write part of the bible on stone tablets. He should have continued, to avoid all this confusion.

 

Part of the confusion comes from people trying to read into the Bible what they want to see instead of receiving what's really there. I've caught myself doing that several times, I'm ashamed to say, and something I was sternly warned about in the preaching class I took a few years ago. When the agendas of mankind try to incorporate themselves into Scripture, it does get confusing because ideas and principles start falling out of alignment, and then loose ends and rabbit trails start appearing out of nowhere.

Another thing that can make the Bible confusing is trying to learn it in random chunks. The Bible didn't really start making sense to me until I got the whole picture, and then went back to the more prominent lessons to see how they fit into that picture. Scripture is bigger than the sum of its parts, and without the guidelines and principles that appear in the whole, the pieces can be 'nudged' out of sync.

One thing to keep in mind is that many people have their own unique preconceptions of "truth" before they even go looking for it. This diminishes one's ability to be receptive to the truth itself. I'm speaking here from experience. Sometimes I've gotten ahead of myself trying to anticipate what the Bible is trying to say, and run into a brick wall because I wasn't 'listening' -- I was only focused on what I wanted to see. It's like having a conversation with someone who's just waiting for their turn to talk instead of listening to what you have to say.

Another thing to keep in mind, is how 'big' (for a lack of a better term) God really is. I heard somewhere that trying to understand God is like three blind men trying to describe an elephant. All three are going to have differing descriptions, but should have some core similarities as well. Some aspects will fit, and some won't. And none of the three will have an absolutely complete picture.

Actually, you probably do. They probably just haven't mentioned it, or maybe don't realize it. The Bible teaches to ask God for help and understanding continually. The catch is, that understanding doesn't usually come in the time or in the way we expect or even want.

 

I think it really has always been about faith. Galations chapter three tells of Abraham believing God and it being counted as righteousness. Abraham was long before the law of Moses or the gospel. He still found the way to salvation. I belive God gives everyone an opportunity to believe. I also think that opportunity presents itself to most people today through the spread of the gospel.

 

I love how you always make me THINK, HB

I do think that, at least for awhile, I DID continually ask for such guidance. And it didn't lead me where I thought or hoped it would.

And you're right about divine revelation, too, now that I consider it more in depth. Perhaps I've even experienced it myself, in limited ways. It just didn't necessarily clarify my questions of faith in the ways I was looking for at the time.

I do still think that many people who sincerely quest for "truth" are led down different paths; & I don't see that most of those paths are any less valid than the others.

Food for thought . . . Thanks

 

Been there, done that.

Every Christian I've ever spoken with or heard from or read has a similar story. Try not to let that be too discouraging.

I agree that people on that quest are indeed shown many paths. However, Truth by its very definition cannot possibly lead in so many wildly different directions and all be legitimate. The paths do not all lead to the same conclusions.

 

Now see, dammit! That's the most confusing part of all!!! :banginghe

Maybe we're all only on a tiny part of a bigger path? I don't know. I just do my best day to day.

All I can say/pray is: Let my mind be open, but not a sieve. Let me recognize truth when I see it. Help me be compassionate & true.