Didn't like Star Wars? - Probably didn't follow what was going on.

I didn't think any of this was at all subtle. I think Lucas focused too much on trying to tie stuff together. He ended up hitting you over the head with things, IMO. I guess I'd rather have to think about it to figure it out than have him straight out tell me as it's unfolding.

And the clone army thing made no sense. Wouldn't somebody be a little suspicious if there's been a clone army built on secret orders from a dead jedi? Especially considering the secret nature of the planet? And wouldn't they be even more curious that the army just happened to be finished when Obiwan tracks Jenga Fett there? Presumably, Jenga was to lead Obiwan there, but why would he be there to potentially get caught? To lead him to ... that other place... ? But then, why try to kill him? Jenga certainly wasn't a pawn, as he was clearly working both sides -- hell that's him out there in the proto-trooper outfits. Also, it showed a bit of poor judgement on Jenga's part to stay. If he was really such a bad-ass bounty hunter, he'd have left when the shit hit the fan. Didn't he know there was a vast army coming? Didn't he know the result would be a huge battle?

 

Some of these subtle things were questions that I heard friends ask after the movie. So some on here may have missed them.

I don't think they knew the order was from a dead Jedi. I also don't think he lead Obi Wan to the planet intensionally. Obi Wan found out about the planet from his friend at the diner. I think Jenga was there because that's where he lives. The timing of the army being finished is a little strange, but I'd blame that on Palpatine. He's the one behind everything. Being head of the senate kinda gives him the ability to time the push for a Federation army. But you're right about Jenga working both sides, he's with Palpatine.

I also think he knew a huge battle would happen eventually, but he didn't count on Yoda bringing it that soon.

 

Not from a dead Jedi? Maybe I misunderstood. Head of the "council" or something -- I thought they were Jedis. The skinny folks said that they had been given the order 10 years ago. Personally, it seemed that Obi Wan blew it by asking questions. You'd think in a percieved hostile environment, he'd try to act more like he knew what was going on rather than just out and saying "who ordered them"? I mean, if they thought he was in the know, that'd potentially clue them in right away.

The records of that system were erased. The only way they were gonna find it was with an investigation (implying the need to not actually kill Amidala but really just leave clues). The only way, it seems, they were gonna get the Clone Army was by "stumbling" upon it as they did. If the plan was to have this clone army fight the droid army, then don't you think they'd need to find that they actually have this clone army? Palpatine couldn't certainly say "oh, by the way, we've already got an army". No, he'd have to have somebody else discover it to avoid suspicion. If the whole plot here is an evil conspiracy, then they were led to these places (or the conspiracy would fail). This means that Obi Wan was allowed to land and be captured on the other planet (which explains why they didn't detect him landing) -- but it doesn't explain why Jenga tried to kill him. Heck, why would Jenga even go there if he wasn't supposed to lead him there? You'd think he'd head off to some neutral hiding place till the smoke cleared. It's like leading the cops back to your hide-out. If Obi Wan really was a fly in the ointment, it would have been nice if they'd at least acknowledged that the "real" plan had to be scrapped and modified. Instead, the end implies that it went as planned.

Personally, it would seem to me that Jenga Fett being "in on it" is a HUGE liability. Why trust a bounty hunter with your grand scheme? It wasn't like he was integral to the Federation's plans or anything, was he? If this was a big secret, you should only tell as many people as absolutely need to know.


There's a flaw that a lot of movies make -- particularly ones with "mysteries". They don't look at things as a whole and make sure people are behaving appropriately. Certainly as the plot unfolds, the decisions people make seem logical, but when you learn what really is going on, some things just don't make sense.

 

As far as the Clone army goes... I'm not sure about the order... I think Palpatine had something to do with it yes... I don't think he expected Obi-Wan there... with or without there was the threat of a galatic war... so they would need an army somehow... so he could have made it look like they had been produced for some other reason... had there never been a clone army the Jedi's would had their asses handed to them on Geonosis... so the Republic ie Palpatine would need someone to "fight for the republic" in their place... in turn he has his grand army of mindless clones... I think part was supposedly planned and other parts were screwed up... but in the end Palpatine ended up getting what he wanted over all.

 

Of course, the whole reason they were on Geonosis was because he'd found Jenga Fett and the clones. So if it wasn't Palpatine's plan to have the clones found and subsequently Jenga Fett tailed, the Jedis would not have jumped into the shit-storm they did. Instead, they would still have a council and all the Jedis would still be alive and the war might not have happened.

Look at India and Pakistan -- they've both got armies, so they don't attack. If one side didn't have an army, an attack would be more immenent. The Droid army attacked thinking they'd just mop up the Jedi, but then Yoda sent in the clones (heh) to battle the droids out of necessity.

Certainly there could have been some other planned instigation, but it would be nice if they said so or at least hinted at it. My impression was that when Dooku reports back to Palpatine, he says everything went according to plan or something. Anybody remember the exact quote? I know he said "you'll be happy to know the battle has begun" but I think there was more. Heck, even if it was "The plan moves faster than anticipated" or "The Jedi intervention was unforseen, but their defeat was a boon to our plans". That'd at least let you know they weren't relying on these one in a million occurances to happen.

 

Dammit... quit making it complicated... LOL

seriously I think its meant to be a little of each... the only problem is that Palpatine can see the future... this is the one thing that makes it confusing simply because we don't know what he's seen and what he hasn't seen... so we have to suck it up get pulled into their little world and go watch episode 3... don't you see... they already have us... whether we think its the greatest Star Wars or not its irrelivant... because it was JUST intriguing enough to keep us going "wha??"... and for that SAME reason we will go buy it on DVD/VHS and for that SAME reason we'll be watching Episode 3 when its out... that's what makes Star Wars as a whole magical the ability to captivate its audience SO much that we end up discussing it on a message board 2 weeks after its release

 

some other things to think on...

first off, i hated this movie from the very start to the very end. but, as for the fett storyline...

his character was senseless. he was cool, but unfortunately his character was just that...something cool to look at, but no substance. as for boba, since when did boba ever have a burning hatred for jedis? i don't think he gave a damn about luke and what happened to him in the middle 3 movies. boba, for reasons that are never explained, and incidently don't really need to be examined, despised solo. hell, i think he would have hunted solo for free, jabba or no jabba. doesn't really make sense, seeing how a jedi beheaded his father.

this has been something that has developed in these new movies...characters without depth, and ultimately without any bearing on the story, that are seemingly placed in the movie to attempt to fill a hole from the middle movies. or, more cynically if you prefer, created to sell a toy and squeeze a few more bucks out of what appears to be, creatively, a weezing franchise.

i'll leave the gaping plot flaw of c3po out of this for the time being...

 

I have to agree. The first movie and the first half of this one was all about answering all the "burning questions" from 4-6. But, ya know, those little mysteries are what made the first movies good. They make a reference to some planet in episode 4 -- that's flavor. I don't need to see it in episodes 1-3. Leave it alone. They're trying to tell you 5 things in 1 sentence.

A typical example is the exchange between Amidala and Anakin when they arrive on Naboo. We learn from seemingly casual conversation that:


1. She was elected Queen
2. She was very young when elected (though not the youngest ever elected)
3. Naboo has a constitution with Term Limits for Queens (2 terms)
4. The people wanted to ammend Constitution to allow her another term
5. The New Queen asked her to be Senator


But that took like 3 sentences in the movie! It's like nobody talked except when they were on camera.


I guess what it felt like was a summary rather than a movie. The end got a bit better, but in general, it seemed like they were just rushing through to connect dots laid out by other movies.

 

I enjoy a good si-fi flick. Can't wait for the next one. I don't know if it is just me getting older but I really have to concentrate when the images are bombarding me. That's the only thing I have a beef about. I'd take half of the special effects just so I had longer to look at the other half. It's like a writer who uses runon sentences...give me a break.
Other than that I suspend logic and just enjoy them. Almost all the good guys get killed in the next one.

 

saw episode II finally. I HELLA LOVED IT...

well...the cheesy romantic parts were lame. who wrote that that stuff? lucas shoulda hired someone like rob reiner to do the romantic scenes...but aside from that...

episode II kicked ass, IMO.

loved yoda in this movie. he is the classic jedi master. i liked him "flying" all over the place, fighting dooku. yoda is the hero of this movie. he also taked like he always did. inverted phrases? i loved the way he talked. backwards, you know, like: "a lot to learn, you still have."

loved the foreshadowing of anakin's dark side: his confession to the 'slaughtering' and his confusion because he is a jedi and jedi's dont do that. he is showing his dark side already. also, did anybody catch the darth vader tune they played when they showed this scene? it's the darth vader music! same background music they played when vader appears in the second trilogy: episodes IV, V & VI. a new hope, the empire strikes back and return of the jedi.

i think this first trilogy: episodes I (phantom menace), II (attack of the clones) and III (?) will be the best of the nine parts. i know george lucas said he might not be able to do the last trilogy because he'd be too old. But i suspect there will be episodes VII, VIII & IX.

maybe some of our questions on this prequel might be answered in episode III. obtw, the step brother of anakin's is a "moisture farmer"! they live in the dessert, naturally farming moisture is common trade.

like some of you, i will see this movie a couple more times. i missed a lot cuz i was sleepy!

samuel jackson's purple light saber is the best!