Delhomme

Wholeheartedly agree on everything. I've talked about honest replacements for Jake - though I don't see it happening. Other than the "Jake must go or I'm not a fan anymore" people, there's some honest discourse on our other options. They aren't many, but there are others. And obviously, you, I, anyone else would rather win football games than anything.

 

Nobody addressed this.

The last several Superbowls indicate that you can still win without Joe Montana throwing the ball.

Trent Dilfer
Brad Johnson
Kurt Warner ( he ran out of heart I guess )
Big Ben

Yeah - Brady squeezes in there nicely and won a bunch. But those other guys rank right next to Jake. They won.

Peyton manning hasn't won, though. Marino never won.

But that said - when building a team, how do you find a Brady? And is that it? Should you give up peppers to go for David Carr or Harrington?

I think Delhomme has had a bad year. If it continues next year, it's a trend. I hope it doesn't, because franchises who don't have their guy tend to struggle for years.

FWIMFW - Brees was the steal of FA last year.

 

BWI-Panther, you're right. A lot of people expect Jake to be a QB who can carry a team no matter what - no offensive line? no run game? receivers dropping passes? defense giving up leads in the 4th?

There has never been a QB who can deal with that and win.

Jake does have accuracy issues and he does make bone headed throws. But we've seen time and time again teams winning without having the greatest QB in NFL history at the helm. In fact, the team with the best QB usually didn't win. Elway never won until he had a good D and a great running game. Marino never won one. Peyton Manning hasn't won one. Brady has always had a good defense behind him. Favre had one win and that was it, and he had a good D and a solid running game.

Football is a team sport - it's not fair to pinpoint jake as the root of all our problems. What's the stat - we've given up 4th quarter leads in 5 games? It's not fair to go out there every other game and to say "Jake, we need you to win this one." Nobody has that kind of magic.

Is Delhomme perfect? By no means. But he is good enough. If they manage to plug some of the holes they've had this year like fixing the o-line and shoring up the defense, Jake will magically get better.

Regardless, he's the best we've got. And probably the best we'll have for a few years. Thus the solution is to try to improve some of his flaws while improving the parts around him to put him in a position to win.

 

3 out of the 4 QB's you name had great running games and great defenses. If youre going to have a marginal QB, you have to have a great something else, this year, we dont have anything great.

The QB takes the heat, thats just what happens, and JD is underperforming as much as anyone else.

 

Naturally. It's not in the grand scheme of "truth".

you develop that player with good coaching and time;
you don't give up Peppers for those two. Hell, Palmer's the extreme case. He's the Aikman. The problem is, now QBs are getting to be such a high premium that guys I didn't think that talented, are going first day easily. Which raises the price, the expectations, and therefore raise the problems that deal with any QB situation.

agreed on all

 

The Panthers have been a significantly better running team this season than last, we have given up 24 sacks on the season (11th best in the NFL), and we have better receivers. What is the main difference between reaching the NFC Championship game last season and being below .500 this season? Poor quarterback play.

The best teams generally win the Super Bowl. The best QB doesn't necessarily win it all just as the best RB doesn't, but the team with the better QB overwhelmingly wins the majority of games.

Jake is the biggest problem for this team this season. We have given up fourth quarter leads, although you should ask why the defense seems to struggle in 4th quarters. You might find that it has something to do with the defense being kept on the field throughout the game by an offense that has the league's worst 3rd down conversion percentage.

He was good enough, but right now he most certainly is not. He is the biggest (though far from the only) reason we're losing. Changing the offensive line or defense would not magically make Jake something other than the worst QB in the entire league on 3rd downs. That's all on him and no one else. For whatever reason, he's not even close to even the mediocre accuracy he used to have in previous seasons, plus he's still making dumb decisions with the football.

Yes, he is, which is why the team needs to at minimum bring in someone who can legitimately challenge for the starting job during the off-season.

 

he's not going to carry anybody. We've seen that there are a very small number of guys who do, and even then, most of those guys have a spotless supporting cast.

he does both of those. Up to now, he's also made some plays. Now, for a while, he's not.

If he's not here, that's fine. I don't honestly know that there are many options at all that get us back to where we were before he started struggling, and don't want to make a change just to do it. Otherwise, I'm more than fine with a different QB next year, if that QB is at least as good.

 

Hell no to both. Harrington blows and we couldn't afford Carr. A guy who doesn't throw a ton of picks or put it on the ground a lot would be the ticket . . . it's a little too late but Garcia would be ideal. I'm not sure if ANYONE here is saying GET RID OF JAKE. I am just advocating finding a vet "game manager" for next year who can push Jake and be a better insurance policy than we've had since jake has been here. AND get Jake some serious one on one tutoring with a coach who can train him to stop doing some of the stupid SEEMINGLY correctable mistakes that he has consistently made this year.
I'm saying invest a little in IMPROVING the starter we have and adding credible depth at the position for once.

 

I meant in the 2002 draft, passing up Peppers for the potential qb that Hammer says we need to find. It's easier for a franchise to recover from a bust #2 DE than a #2 QB.

Carson Palmer IS the exception, but I also don't see a ring on his finger.

UNCDubya - that was my point. I think the run game and defense are more important than a 'great' qb, and are also something that MAY be easier to obtain than a guy like Brady ( who also had great defenses. )

Rake - hammer is saying to get rid of Jake and get a new qb b/c Jake can't carry a team.

 

I'm saying it. Do you really want to risk another season on the idea that he won't be as bad and inaccurate next year as he has been this one? And fyi, Jake is a veteran so it's not as if you're really going to get him to improve at this point. He is what he is.


meat:
There are a few QBs in the draft that I'd like, but not as a starter anytime soon. It's extremely rare for a drafted QB to come in and do well in his first couple of seasons, and I don't think we should wait that long. That's why I'm advocating bringing in someone who can legitimately challenge for the job through a trade or free agency.