Creationist Wolf in Cheap Clothing

I think the basis of ID is to say that an intelligent force was the catalyst for the universe, that brought it into being from nothing to a level relatively represented in our earliest records of natural history. It goes into dispute from there, but I think that's the basic idea.

 

Are you sure that's the one you want to use? Becasue we don't have a test for God either, so why do you have to remove that from our list of assumptions we get to make?

 

sad but true

 

Mainly two other people have -- Sly and Miss tery, in that order.

It wasn't a lie, it was an oversight. Huge freaking difference there, and you're smart enough to know that. After carefully re-reading the thread, I corrected myself.

I noticed your restraint, and I appreciate it.

 

No, not contradictory. I assume you're familiar with the concept of "dark matter." Even if that doesn't pan out, something similar could be the operating force that drives the universe to accelerate despite the influence of gravity. Of course it could also be that our understanding of the Big Bang is flawed and/or incomplete, which almost seems probable given how much of it is entirely theoretical (and fairly new), but they're not contradictory.

 

Why not? What part of the definition I posted above says that supernatural influences cannot be considered? Or where is it written that an intelligent creator may not be part of the natural realm itself?

 

So, let me get this straight.

The theories as we can explain them now are most definitely contardicting each other, but to explain this contradiction, we are going to use a hypothesis involving a group of matter about which we have no scietific proof of how it is affecting the process, what it is, or really even if it truly exists.

Cool. Mind if I replace dark matter with God and you give me the same breaks?

 

No, hypotheses regarding the presence of dark matter go all the way back to Einstein and predate theory construction regarding the big bang. Einstein showed that there is something out there which is acting on the visible world, but we still don't know what it is. Sure, dark matter could be god, I have no way of knowing. All we know is that something exists, and that it's affecting our universe in predictable, natural ways.

 

is there science to back this up or is that the extent of the lesson? i don't ask to be glib. evolution (and natural selection in particular) have years and years of research and volumes of information that have been published with detailed reports and hypotheses. some of them didn't stand up to criticism and were supplanted with better hypotheses as more information came to light. and all this good faith effort is being used against science. because there have been so many discoveries, they haven't all found their correct place yet in the chain and that is viewed as some sort of weakness. for the life of me, i can't find anybody willing to propose the id equivalent to natural selection's copious notes.

 

if you're going to question gravity, then you'd probably have to question the means by which measure the speed of matter at the edge of the universe (which relies on the same basic theory as gravity).