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Creation? Evolution?

Discussion in 'Religion & Spirituality Forum' started by articulatekitten, Aug 9, 2006.

  1. HollyB

    HollyB Iz Lives

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    Free will on who?

    God made all the creatures and said it was good. How did one snake become bad?
     
  2. hasbeen99

    hasbeen99 Fighting the stereotype

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    He (Satan) chose to be bad.
     
  3. Superfluous_Nut

    Superfluous_Nut pastor of muppets

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    i find it interesting that the assumtion seems to be that it's either evolution or creation as described by the christian bible. what about the other creation mythos? i mean, you can't use the process of elimination to get from evolution to christian creaiton without eliminating all the other creation stories.
     
  4. Paladin

    Paladin Full Access Member

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    A couple of issues that make the first two chapters of Genesis hard to take on face value:

    1) There is a different order of creation described in chapter 2 than is described in chapter 1; and

    2) It's hard to accept God seriously considering giving an animal as a companion to Adam. Eve is only formed after all the beasts are deemed unsuitable companions for Adam. But the story has God bring each animal before Adam to be named and considered as a companion. God had to test and see? :imagestor

    Edit: one further thing: does it really matter how the world was created? Does it really affect the way you live your life day to day, how you interact with other people, and with God?
     
  5. articulatekitten

    articulatekitten Feline Member

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    I don't find the idea of millions of years so unbelievable as far as "Is it possible?" But I do have some serious doubts as to how scientists date things that far back. From what I could understand at the time I actually studied the topic, it seemed a pretty vague & uncertain way to come to such conclusions. (Admittedly, though, science was never my strong point).
    :thud: I always have the feeling that when sly & I agree, hell is going to freeze over :D
    This verse has always struck a chord with me--the power of God, the intelligence of the universe, being evidenced through the creation itself. When I look at the immense complexity of seemingly simple things in nature, I can't quite fathom their coming into being through an infinite series of accidents. Take something like an eye--a human eye, a cat's eye, whatever--& really examine how complex & amazing it is. Look at our increasing scientific understanding of all levels of energy & matter--layers upon layers, from the universe as a whole to subatomic particles. Mind-blowing stuff.
    I agree, based on what I know now. It's obvious that there's evidence on organisms adapting to their environments. However, I've seen nothing that shows any real evidence of any living thing evolving into a DIFFERENT living thing, which is a central tenet of evolutionary theory. There's no evidence of anything even close to a "missing link" in any species. In Christian scripture the concept is expressed as "each kind reproducing according to its kind." Oranges produce oranges, dogs produce dogs, people produce people.
    To take it a step further, let's ask: Why would a creator make creatures such as human beings & not just make them knowing full well what is good & how to achieve it? What purpose could there be in allowing them to see other enticing possibilities that ultimately are bad for them & allowing them to choose?
    If this is the case, perhaps it can be compared to what we experience in our everyday lives on a smaller scale. Think of all the things you've had to learn "the hard way"--through painful experience. Don't those lessons sink deepest into your being? That's certainly true for me. So I think a possible reason for an omnipotent being to allow free choice might be to show, in a most vivid way, the consequences of wrong choices.
    I agree. I don't think it's limited to those choices. I'd like to see more exploration of other possibilities. I'm not knowledgable enough to suggest what those might be, though.
    I'm also bothered by those 2 points as far as the Christian & Jewish scriptures are concerned.
    And I don't really think it's necessary to know how we began in order to make life worthwhile or to learn to behave morally & ethically. But it IS a burning question for many people. I think it boils down to most of us wanting to know, Why am I here? What is the meaning of my life? We often think that if we knew how it all began, those questions would be answered. Human beings can be so distracted by irrelevancies. Too many of us are so focused on either the past or the future to make good use of the NOW. I still find it a fascinating subject to explore, though :)
     
  6. THE GUTTER

    THE GUTTER Y!

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    And more importantly, why can't people with the jesus fish on their cars drive worth a damn?
     
  7. hasbeen99

    hasbeen99 Fighting the stereotype

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    There have been discoveries of species which appear to be 'missing links', but as in all cases of deduction based on evidence, it's theory, not necessarily fact. And yes, that applies to religious accounts, too.
     
  8. hasbeen99

    hasbeen99 Fighting the stereotype

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    It is my belief (and I think Scripture backs me up on this) that the reason God gave mankind (and angels) free will, even at the risk of rebellion, is to make a loving relationship possible. Love is impossible without choice.

    Additionally, according to Scripture, mankind was created knowing what good was an how to achieve it (meaning living in harmony with God). If the first man and woman never chose to disobey God, again according to the Bible, they'd still be alive today.
     
  9. hasbeen99

    hasbeen99 Fighting the stereotype

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    IMHO, trying to discern our purpose from studying natural history is like trying to guess what's for dinner based on what the dining room looks like.
     
  10. hasbeen99

    hasbeen99 Fighting the stereotype

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    Oh, they can. They just choose not to.







    ...just like everyone else who drives poorly.
     

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