Combine news thread.

Its starting to trickle in.

From GBN:

According to new Cincinnati head coach Marvin Lewis if the Bengals keep the #1 pick at the 2003 draft they will be looking to make the selection from among 6 players: QBs Carson Palmer of Southern Cal and Marshall's Byron Leftwich, Michigan State WR Charles Rogers, Kansas State CB Terence Newman and DTs Jimmy Kennedy of Penn State and, somewhat surprisingly, William Joseph of Miami. Joseph is the surprise of the group in that while each of the others consistently show up in top 5 rankings around the NFL, Joseph is usually rated in the 10-15 range. Joseph did impress at yesterday's wiegh-ins for defensive linemen, however, when he tipped the scales at 305 pounds; and with a 35" reach Joseph also has a huge wingspan. Meanwhile, the Bengals' Lewis gave another hint that the Bengals really, really want to trade out of the #1 slot when he said that the Bengals would want to come out of any such deal with at least another 'first-day' pick. In the past, of course, it would have taken much more than a second or third round pick to move up even a ouple of slots to get the top pick overall.

Also from TFY. Artrose Pinner is on crutches (broken Ankle??)

 

nfl.com snippets

The big topic of discussion is what the Cincinnati Bengals plan to do with the top overall pick, which goes hand-in-hand with the second biggest question, which concerns the quarterback class. To those points, some of the execs who addressed the media this morning were Bengals new coach Marvin Lewis, Jaguars new coach Jack Del Rio and new general manager James Harris, and Bears general manager Jerry Angelo. ... Player interviews have begun, and the system has become more structured than in years past. Each team must submit a list of 60 players they want to interview, and the interview can last no more than 15 minutes. In addition to the claxon that sounds when those 15 minutes are up, there is even a two-minute warning to alert the teams.



The average weight of the four fullbacks was 251 pounds. The lightest was Casey Moore from Stanford, who measured 6-foot-1 7/8, 240 pounds. The heaviest was Jeremi Johnson of Western Kentucky (5-11½, 260), who had a 50-plus-yard touchdown reception in the Division I-AA championship game at a weight of 284 pounds.

Twelve running backs were given their measurements. The average was 227 pounds. Penn State's Larry Johnson rang in at 6-1, 228 pounds; Onterrio Smith of Oregon was 5-10, 220; Lee Suggs of Virginia Tech measured 5-11 5/8, 202; Andrew Pinnock from South Carolina was the heaviest at 265 pounds.

Defensive linemen
Very impressive group of players. Jimmy Kennedy from Penn State measured 6-4, 322. If the "eyeball test" moves a player up in the draft, then DT Rien Long of Washington State would benefit -- he measured 6-6 1/8, 302 pounds.

Sapp look-alike Dewayne Robertson from Kentucky is 6-1 3/8, 317. Tron Lafavor (6-1 7/8, 290) is almost a Sapp look-alike.

Terrell Suggs, who arrived at Arizona State as a running back but emerged at defensive end and led the nation in sacks in 2002, is 6-3 3/8, 262. William Joseph of Miami (Fla.) had the longest arms (35 inches) and measured 6-5, 308.

Oklahoma State's Kevin Williams is another Adonis-looking guy at 6-4 7/8, 304. Kenny King from Alabama, who will do his workout in its entirety, is 6-2¾, 281. Johnathan Sullivan of Georgia is 6-3 5/8, 313.

With some clubs contemplating the move to a 3-4 defensive scheme, a lot of teams are asking some of the lighter guys to work out as linebackers.

 

By Len Pasquarelli

Around the combine

Assuming the Cincinnati Bengals don't trade the first choice in the draft -- and, at this point, there seems to be very little market for that No. 1 pick -- there are a lot of different directions the team can go. One that most draft observers haven't considered is the possibility that the Bengals would try to address their longtime problem area at cornerback and grab Kansas State star Terence Newman. Arguably the top corner prospect this year, with Marcus Trufant of Washington State the only other viable challenger for that spot, Newman would certainly represent an upgrade. Don't forget that new Bengals head coach Marvin Lewis is a defensive-oriented guy, one who knows you don't often win in the league without a so-called "shut down" cornerback. And there is this nugget: ESPN.com has learned that Cincinnati vice president Katie Blackburn has spoken with Newman's agent, David Ware, about what his contract expectations would be if his client were the first overall choice. Granted, it was a brief conversation, but one that might be viewed as meaningful sometime down the road. Some of the Cincinnati coaches are wary of Newman's thin frame and noted that he weighs only about 180-181 pounds. But he has been working at bulking up and could weigh as much as 192 when he checks in here.


Kickers are starting to get more attention in the draft, particularly early on the second day, and Seth Marler of Tulane did nothing on Thursday to hurt his chances of being the first specialist off the board this year. Marler hit all 12 of his field goal attempts in the RCA Dome and impresses coaches with his leg strength. Although he came here as the consensus No. 1 prospect at the position, Marler had something to prove. He wasn't nearly as effective his senior season as he was during his junior year, but dispelled any doubts in front of a tough audience during the kicking session. Far and away the best punter, several special teams coaches acknowledged, was Idaho State standout Eddie Johnson.


Arizona State defensive end Terrell Suggs, who checked in at 6-feet-3 and 262 pounds (about 10 pounds more than his '02 playing weight), will not do any of the on-field drills. That is a disappointment to some of the teams in the league who use the 3-4 defensive front. The Houston Texans, for one, had requested that Suggs participate in the linebacker drills, ESPN.com has confirmed, just to see how he played in space and how he might fit into a scheme that relies more on stand-up pass rushers.


It takes more than good bloodlines to play in the NFL and University of Georgia offensive tackle Jon Stinchcomb, the brother of Oakland Raiders tackle Matt Stinchcomb, can't count on his name alone to get him drafted. And he certainly won't have to, not after bulking up to a surprising 302 pounds and doing 32 repetitions on the standard 225-pound bench press. There were some serious concerns about Stinchcomb's weight, but he has been working hard with a personal trainer to add tonnage, and his bench press was among the best for offensive linemen.


The Denver Broncos have brought their own radiologist, Dr. Charles Ho, to the combine as part of their medical staff. Ho, from Atherton, Calif., is a new addition to the Denver staff. Denver has been burned in the past on a few players whose injuries were more serious than they anticipated. In a copycat league, look for other teams to follow suit, and add a radiologist to their traveling parties.

Momentum meter
Justin Fargas, RB, USC: In what appears to be a poor year for running backs, Southern California tailback Justin Fargas has been on a steady rise throughout the postseason, and has done nothing to hurt himself at the combine so far. The son of the actor who portrayed "Huggy Bear" on the old Starsky and Hutch television series, Fargas is a well-chiseled 219 pounds. And he was able to do 27 repetitions on the standard 225-pound bench press drill. If he can run under 4.5 during his on-campus workout, Fargas can solidify himself among the top running back group in this draft. Another tailback who passed the eyeball test was Dwone Hicks of Middle Tennessee State, who is a little squatter than you'd like (5-feet-10 1/8) but who did 29 "reps" on the bench press. Hicks, though, is going to have to run well, since most scouts feel he is just a 4.5-second guy in the 40-yard dash.

Damian Lavergne, OT, Lousiana Tech: Louisiana Tech offensive tackle Damian Lavergne didn't help himself by demonstrating poor functional strength, lifting the standard 225-pound bench press just 17 times. And several scouts were talking about the "bad body" of Georgia offensive lineman Kareem Marshall.

 

Some observations, very early in the combine process, from two college scouting directors, one from each conference:

"I won't disagree that Jordan Gross (Utah) is the best offensive tackle here and will probably be the first guy taken at that position. But as far as having an athletic guy at the position, man, I love the way that Kwame Harris kid (of Stanford) looks. He came in at 6-feet-7 and, I think, 310 (pounds) and he is as solid as the brick (outhouse). Gross looks a little bit light in the ass to me. We're not interested in a tackle where we pick in the first round but, if I had to choose between the two, it would be a tough call."

"Everybody is looking for the next (Clinton) Portis (Denver tailback), and that's good, since all the tailbacks here look like second-round guys. That might change when they start working out but, just on the eye-ball test, I don't see anyone jumping out at me. In fact, just by being able to walk without a limp, McGahee might be the best back I've seen, honestly."

"I know we say this every year but there are really some beefy defensive tackles here. There look to be more of the run-stuffer kind of tackles this year, while over the past couple years it seemed we were getting the lighter, upfield guys, right. But you take William Joseph (Miami), Jimmy Kennedy (Penn State), Jonathan Sullivan (Georgia), that's some prime meat on the hoof. They're all 315- to 330-pound tackles. We were getting away from that for a while. Good to see those fat run-stuffers back, to be honest."

"One guy I hope works out is (Kenny) Peterson from Ohio State. He was a big difference maker in the Fiesta Bowl. The linemen from Miami simply could not block the guy. What I want to see is, can the kid line up and play at (defensive) end? Does he have that kind of quickness? I don't know if he has the kind of bulk you need to play tackle in this league. But he gets off the ball like he did in the bowl game, maybe he can move outside, and now you've got an end with some run-stopping size. And, believe me, those guys are getting harder to find."

"Center never seems to be a big priority, but you've got to have one, and I'm coming off a little more now to the Notre Dame kid, (Jeff) Faine. He's up to 303 pounds and, while he still looks more like a technician on tape, I can see some 'down and dirty' in him." ---

 

Southern Cal running back Justin Fargas was the talk of the combine Friday. He ran a blistering 4.32 on the slow track at the RCA Dome, a time that could move him into the second round. Fargas was viewed as a late-round guy entering his senior season, but after an injury-plagued start, he played well, had an impressive Senior Bowl and now has the league abuzz with his speed. Some scouts say Fargas has skinny legs, and he has had some injury troubles in his career, but that kind of speed is hard to turn away from and will make him a lot of money.
* Miami wide receiver Andre Johnson is 6-2, 230 pounds and says he can run a 4.4 40. "That guy is a rock," said one NFC personnel director. "He looks like a tight end." Johnson is the second-rated receiver behind Charlie Rogers of Michigan State. Both could be top-five picks.

* There are major rumblings around the combine that Leftwich's injury problems are worse than he's leading on. Some personnel people say they were concerned about the way he stepped off the scale and put the weight onto his left leg, the injured leg. If he can't show that he's healthy by the time the draft rolls around, some team is going to be facing a tough decision on whether to take him. He certainly has top 10 talent, but do you risk that with the injury troubles?


Same article says:
* Utah offensive tackle Jordan Gross impressed the scouts with his workout Friday. Gross did everything well, according to those who watched him. He should be the first offensive lineman drafted.

but then GBN says

Top rated OT disappoints...NFL personnel people were reportedly a little disappointed that Utah OT Jordan Gross, the top-rated OT prospect for the 2003 draft, weighed in at barely 300 pounds at the combines in Indianapolis this week; indeed, there are rumors that Gross could ultimately be challenged for the highest grade among OTs by Stanford junior Kwame Harris whose stock has been on the rise.

 

I feel a lot better about Pashos again, Senior Bowl aside, when he's coming in at 335 and posted a 38 rep workout. I was down on him when they said he had some strength issues. As a run blocker, he'll get the job done, and as a right tackle, he's going to be adequate. Given our offense this type pick isn't out of line from what we want, or what most run game teams end up taking.



Offensive Line

Jordan Black (Notre Dame-OT)(6'6", 315)
Derrick Dockery (Texas-OG)(6'6", 347)
Jeff Faine (Notre Dame-C)(6'2", 303)
Makoa Freitas (Arizona-OG) 36 reps of 225, 5.01/40
Jordan Gross (Utah-OT)(6' 4 1/2", 300) 28 reps of 225, 5.05/40
Kwame Harris (Stanford-OT)(6' 7'', 310) 5.08/40
Montrae Holland (FSU-OG)(6'1", 333) 30 reps of 225
Wayne Hunter (Hawaii-OT)(6' 6", 303) 37 reps of 225, 5.07/40, Vert. 31"
Al Johnson (Wisc.-C)(6'4", 305)
Ben Johnson (Wisc.-OT)(6'6", 329)
Scott Kooistra (North Carolina State-OT)(317 lbs.) 5.13/40
Damian Lavergne(Louisiana Tech-OT) 17 reps of 225
Vince Manuwai (Hawaii-OG)(6'2", 304) 28 reps of 225, shuttle drill in the 4.2s
Tony Pashos (Illinois-OT)(6'6", 337) 38 reps of 225
Tim Provost (San Jose State-OT)(301 lbs.) 21 reps of 225, Vert. 28.5", Long jump 8'7"
Brett Romberg (Miami-C)(6' 2", 290) 27 reps of 225
Justin Sands (Kansas-OT) 31 reps of 225
Eric Steinbach (Iowa-OG/OT)(6' 6",297) 35" vert., 4.90-4.96/40 (GBN says 4.85/40)
Jon Stinchcomb (Georgia-OT) 32 reps of 225
Torrin Tucker (Southern Miss.-OG)(6'5", 320)
Brett Williams (Florida State-OT)(6' 6", 310)


Running Backs/Fullbacks

Chris Brown (Colorado-RB)(6' 2", 230)
Kerry Carter (Stanford-RB)(238 lbs.), 7% body fat, 20 reps of 225, Vert. 36.5", long jump 9'10"
Domanick Davis (LSU-RB) did 22 reps of 225, 4.57/40
Justin Fargas (USC-RB) (6' 1", 219 lbs), did 27 reps at 225, 40 time of 4.28 (per GBN)
Justin Griffith (Mississippi State-FB)(5'11", 230) did 29 reps of 225, 4.55/40
Dwone Hicks (Middle Tennesse St.-RB) 29 reps at 225
Jeremi Johnson (W. Kentucky-FB/RB) (5' 11 1/2", 260)
Larry Johnson (Penn St.-RB)(6'-1", 228 )
Nick Maddox (Florida State-RB)(211 lbs.) 18 reps of 225
Sultan McCullough (USC-RB) did 27 reps of 225
Casey Moore (Stanford-FB)(6'1 7/8", 240)
Artose Pinner (Kentucky-RB)(5' 10", 228 )
Andrew Pinnock (S.C.-RB)(265 lbs - also reported at 250 lbs)
Musa Smith (Georgia-RB)(6' 1¾", 232)
Onterrio Smith (Oregon-RB) 5'10", 220)
Lee Suggs (V. Tech-RB)(5' 11 5/8", 202)


Defensive Linemen

Anthony Adams (Penn State-DT) 5' 11 1/2", 299) 5.08/40
Tully Banta-Cain (Cal-DE)(6' 2", 265 lbs) did 25 reps of 225
Tyler Brayton (Colorado-DE)(6' 5" or 6' 6", 271 or 277) low 4.7/40 or 4.67/40
Nick Burley (Fresno State-DE)(6' 3 1/2", 243) 26 reps of 225, 4.83/40
Nick Eason (Clemson-DT)(6' 3", 301 or 302 lbs.) 29 reps of 225, "low 5.0s in the 40"
Aubrayo Franklin (Tennessee-DT)(6' 1 1/2", 307) 29 reps of 225
Brandon Green (Rice-DE)(6' 2 1/2", 267) 19 reps of 225, 4.74/40
Jamaal Green (Miami-DE)(6' 1 1/2", 272) 27 reps of 225
Omari Hand (Tennessee-DE)(6' 3 3/4", 267) 34 reps of 225
Michael Haynes (Penn St.-DE)(6' 3 ½", 280) did 23 reps of 225
Aaron Hunt (Texas Tech-DE)(6' 2 1/2", 268 ) did 24 or 25 reps of 225, 4.73/40
Alonzo Jackson (Florida State-DE)(6' 4", 250 or 266) 14 reps of 225
William Joseph (Miami-DT)(6' 5", 308 )(longest arms of DLs at 35") 30 reps of 225 (Gambill says 29 reps)
Chris Kelsay ( Nebraska-DE)(6' 4 3/8, 273) 23 reps of 225, 4.68 and 4.77/40s
Jimmy Kennedy (Penn State-DT)(6' 4", 322)
Kenny King (Alabama-DT)(6' 2 3/4", 281)
Dan Klecko (Temple-DE/DT)(5' 11 3/4", 285) 4.93-4.97/40
Tron Lafavor (Florida-DT)(6' 1 7/8", 290)
James Lee (Oregon State-DT) 4.91/40
Matt Leonard (Stanford-DT) 30 reps of 225, 4.95/40
Rien Long (Wash. St.-DT)(6' 6 1/8", 302)
Eric Manning (Oregon State-DT)(6' 1 1/4", 303) 26 reps of 225
Terrance Martin (NC St.-DT)(6' 2", 299) 30 reps of 225
Jerome McDougle (Miami-DE)(6' 2", 264) 4.65 and 4.68/40
Clint Mitchell (Florida-DE)(6' 7", 257) 16 reps of 225, 4.88 and 4.93/40s
Langston Moore (South Carolina-DT)(6' 1", 303) 29 reps of 225
Calvin Pace (Wake Forest-DE) 4.77/40, Vert. 33"
Antwan Peek (Cinci-DE/OLB)(61 2", 246 or 247 lbs) 21 reps of 225, Vert. 37"
Kenny Peterson (OSU-DE)(6' 3", 298 ) 29 of 225
Shurron Pierson (South Florida-DE) 4.61/40
Cory Redding (Texas-DE)(6' 4", 279)
Dewayne Robertson (Kentucky-DT)(6' 1 3/8", 317)
Ian Scott (Florida-DT)(6' 2 1/2", 312) 28 reps of 225, 5.18/40
Terrell Suggs (Arizona St-DE)( 6' 3 3/8", 262)
Johnathan Sullivan (Georgia-DT)(6' 3 5/8", 313)
Matt Walters (Miami-DT)(6' 4 1/2", 272) 30 reps of 225
DeWayne White (Louisville-DE)(6' 2", 273) 22 reps of 225, Vert. 33.5"
Andrew Williams (Miami-DE) sub 4.7/40
Kevin Williams (Okla. St.-DT)(6' 4 7/8", 304) 23 reps of 225, 4.97/40
Jimmy Wilkerson (Oklahoma-DE)(6' 3", 271) 29 reps of 225, 4.90/40


Quarterbacks

Kyle Boller (Cal.-QB)(6' 3", 233)
Ken Dorsey (Miami-QB)(208 lbs.)
Rex Grossman (Florida-QB) (6' 1")
Byron Leftwich (Marshall-QB)(6' 5" or 6' 5 3/4", 240 or 241)
Carson Palmer (USC-QB)(6' 4", 232)
Dave Ragone (Louisville-QB)(6' 3", 249 lbs)


Wide Receivers

Sam Aiken (North Carolina-WR)(6' 1 1/2", 210)
Paul Arnold (Washington-WR)(6' 0", 213 lbs.)
Arnaz Battle (Norte Dame-WR)(6' 2 1/2")
Latarence Dunbar (TCU-WR) 16 reps of 225
Terrence Edwards (Georgia-WR)(6' 0", 176)
Doug Gabriel (Central Florida-WR)(6' 2", 214)
Taylor Jacobs (Florida-WR)(6' 0", 205)
Andre Johnson (Miami-WR)(6' 2", 230)
Teyo Johnson (Stanford-WR)(6' 5 1/2", 247)
San Diego State WR Kassim Osgood (San Diego St.-WR)(6' 4 7/8”, 208 )
Charles Rogers (Mich. St.-WR)(6' 2 1/2", 202 1/2)
Kelley Washington (Tennessee-WR)(6' 2" or 6' 3", 223)


Tight Ends

Robert Johnson (Auburn-TE)(6' 6 1/2", 278 ) 18 reps of 225
Ben Joppru (Michigan, TE)(6' 4", 272)
Vishante Shiancoe (Morgan State-TE)(6" 4 ¼", 251) 28 reps of 225
Jason Witten (Tennessee-TE)(6' 5½", 262) 27 reps of 225


Linebackers

Nick Barnett (Orgeon State-LB)(236 lbs.)
Boss Bailey (Georgia-LB)(6' 3", 233)
E.J. Henderson (Maryland-LB)(6' 1", 245)
Bradie James (LSU-LB)(6' 1 5/8"),
LaMarcus McDonald (TCU-LB)(227 lbs.)
Kawika Mitchell (S. Florida-LB)(6' 1", 253)
Terry Pierce (Kansas State-LB)(6' 1", 251) 28 reps of 225
Pisa Tinoisamoa (Hawaii-LB)(231 lbs.)


Defensive Backs

Dejuan Groce (Nebraska-CB)(5' 9 1/2", 192)
Rashean Mathis (Bethune-Cookman-CB) 22 reps of 225
Marcus Trufant (Wash. St.-CB)(199 lbs.) 11 reps of 225

 

Anquan slipping??

Tyrone Calico - Middle Tennessee: clocked fastest, 4.33 ( mid) depending on who ran the watch.

Ryan Hoag - Gustavas College: Ran well and got noticed

Kevin Curtis - Utah St.: Worked out well

Brandon Lloyd - Illinois: Ran much slower than expected

Anquan Boldin - Florida St: Preformed Terribly

Andre Johnson - Miami ( FL ): Did not run

Teyo Johnson - Stanford: Did not run

 

poor performances the Sunday morning story

Rex Grossman - Florida: Not what scouts were expecting, just average session.

Ken Dorsey - Miami (FL): Average session, did not show anything special

WR

Talman Gardner - Florida State - Inconsistent hands, not making a good impression.

Brandon Lloyd - Illinois: Still running slow, but catching the ball very well.

Anquan Boldin - Florida St: Another session, and another very poor performance

Teyo Johnson - Looking a step slow again, needs to pick the speed up for

 

Ragone making strides??

Dave Ragone - Louisville: best session of any qb and may have landed in the first round.

Carson Palmer - USC: Threw well as per usual

Chris Simms - Texas: Showed Flashes, nothing consistent.

Brian St Pierre - Boston College: Showed spurts, like Simms nothing consistent.

Kareem Kelly - USC: Ran in the mid 4.4

Second session of WR's showed no speed at all.

J.R. Tolver - San Diego St.: Ran slower than most of the Qbs

Charles Rogers - Michigan State: No Workouts, No Nothing ........ and nothing planned at this time at the RCA dome.

Kelley Washington - Tennessee: Did not take part in "anything"

 

>> Rex Grossman - Florida: Not what scouts were expecting, just average session. Ken Dorsey - Miami (FL): Average session, did not show anything special. Dave Ragone - Louisville: best session of any qb and may have landed in the first round.

Crud. So how well do these combines do at predicting the success of a QB in the NFL? George always comes to my mind of someone who looked great when he didn't have defensive linemen bearing down on him.

>>"Center never seems to be a big priority, but you've got to have one, and I'm coming off a little more now to the Notre Dame kid, (Jeff) Faine. He's up to 303 pounds and, while he still looks more like a technician on tape, I can see some 'down and dirty' in him." ---

I've always been big on the center position after watching Mike Webster destroy the Oilers for years. The Oilers went out and got Bruce Mathews with a top 10 pick (I think) and converted him to center. He and Munchak were the heart of that offense for years. I'd think low priority considering Mitchell is our best OL ... but if your center can single-handedly blow the nose-guard off the line, ya got something huge.