Can we talk about forgiveness?

He already does this, in a way. He's very active on a website for people who have had experiences like his. He's helped a lot of people there.

Did I mention I'm proud of him?

 

It was the Professor, not JB.

 

I just did a quick search on the bear thing and found nothing. Gotta link?

 

Just because a 14-year-old (or anyone for that matter) says something, that doesn't make it true.

Maybe because it's Bibical.

Two things: First, the danger of rampant 'forgiveness' bringing down his perception of America's moral values has everything to do with political correctness, and nothing to do with Christianity. In fact, the religious right (which is, unfortunately, the closest thing to Christian influence in politics) leans exponentially more into law and order and hell, fire, and brimstone than anything else. Second, I'm pretty sure the author's Jewish background has left him shaky on the whole concept of Christian forgiveness itself. Judaism is based on law and judgment, so forgiveness does not come nearly as easily as it does for Christians.

There is very, very little danger of this happening. The vast majority of America still wants to see blood when blood is shed.

Right on the first part, wrong on the second.

Scripture taken out of context. This passage is specifically applied to believers who sin against each other, and given so because as believers they should be more than willing to repent of any sin. It's an outward sign of a heart in allegiance to God.

There are many other verses instructing forgiveness from believers to non-believers. I did a quick search and came up with about a dozen in the Gospels alone.

Again, I see the author's Jewish point of view. Jesus asking God's forgiveness for those who crucified Him was because they were, through their own ignorance, not only fulfilling prophecy but also completing the sacrificial work of Christ.

He's discounting a huge amount of injury if the only ones he considers "sinned against" are those whose lives were taken from them. The dead do not grieve.

Because it helps someone put an offense to rest, and also repentance before God is still necessary.

This statement tells me Mr. Prager has absolutely no idea what Christian forgiveness is, nor does he understand God's justice.

It might be religious grandstanding (and the Bible deals with that). But if it's sincere, I totally disagree with his accusation of self-centeredness.

In a way, I suppose. But is it better to carry anger and pain?

Only if Christians are doing the judging.

 

Perhaps, and I say this very cautiously and respectfully, because your emotions are very real and valid, your anger and pain can be separated some? Losing a parent is very difficult. My dad died from cancer when I was 14 and it still affects me to this day (and I'm 35 now). I didn't have anyone to blame for the cancer, but the pain of the loss of my dad was unreal, and almost unbearable. It was as if someone had took a knife and cut out half of my chest. When you lost your dad, you lost a part of you.

I do not know what it is like to have a family member murdered and can only feebly imagine what that may feel like. However, I do know that even if you can find a way to forgive the murderers, you still are confronted with the unbelievable pain of losing someone so close, so important to you. Emotions are messy things, though. They're like jello in the hand if you squeeze it - the jello may come from one direction, but it goes in five other directions under pressure. So your anger and grief are likely strongly intermixed, with emotion from one overflowing into the other and vice versa.

You've probably been this route plenty, but I would suggest plenty of quiet prayer, seeking the companionship of the Holy Spirit and seeking the guidance of the Spirit to find a way of forgiveness.

 

BTW, excellent counterpoint response to the article, HB.:xyzthumbs

 

Thank you, Mr. Paladin.

 

I'd be interested in knowing more about this website. Will you pm the address to me?

I don't know JB, but I really admire the courage and openess he has shown in dealing with his pain. He shows a lot of intelligence and maturity for someone who is still very young.

 

I'm afraid I don't have it. You'll have to get it from jb.

 

Thanks Hb, sorry i haven't gotten back in awhile but it's getting near the end and it's crazy around here. you are really helping me understand this a lot better.

I really don't want to take my "best shot" at them. I know God will take care of that, but i do hope hope they will repent. it's just while they are on this earth i don't want them doing this to another family.

it's weird but i really don't have a lot of anger directed right at them but i think that is only because i have been so protected from them by my family. it's easier for me than most survivors who have had to see their perps and hear them. i have never seen them and they lived in another state and it happened away from home, i didn't have to deal with alot of media crap. but i guess if i had to hear them and their excuses or how they could care less about what they did, like what a lot of survivors have to put up with, i think i would have a lot of anger directed towards them and would want to take a baseball bat to their skull.
my anger is more directed at the overall ordeal and to people who i personally know who i think treated me like crap when i needed them the most. i really do have a harder time releasing that anger than i do for the 3 who started all of this.