Can we talk about forgiveness?

Curse you jb for putting Don Henley in my head, thereby turning me near suicidal:

ARGHHH. Let this thread die or change the title

 

Looking for a logical single answer within the Bible, is like asking 30 people the same question. As it is a collection of works from several different sources. IE: Read "Misquoting Jesus" for some conservative estimates on how many 'translation' changes have been made alone.

When you ask 30 people, no matter how wise, you will get different answers, sometimes conflicting.

We all know Christians choose which scriptures to follow and which ones not too. The bible is full of examples of eating or killing your children, or women not raising their heads in the church, etc. Most christians consider that sort of stuff hog wash or try to ignore those examples. The guy who asked god to send a bear to eat the children who made fun of his bald head, and god sent the bear...Christians do not choose to see this as their god.

I agree with them. That is because I think they are looking elsewhere for answers besides the bible.

So in my opinion, the source you are looking for in answers is flawed.

Look into your hart and concious for questions about forgiveness.
"Pray" on it.

Ask yourself this question:

IF there is a God that made us in his own image, then it is logical to assume that the feelings of a Father for his Children (that is relatively universal) would perhaps be the same he feels for us.

Granted, you can cite examples of specific cultures, or individuals who didn't treat their children the same. I am talking specifically though about how *YOU* feel as a Father.

As I am a Father, I can tell you some Universal Truths:

"A Father May Forgive, but a Father never forgets"

Therefore, it is logical to assume that just because someone did harm, you may forgive them, but you won't ever forget it. You will act accordingly.

As to what you should do as a Human Being, the answer is simple;
Be a Human Being.

It is our Natural reaction not to forgive some heinous action. I still do not forgive Susan Smith for what she did to her two boys, and not only do I not know them, but its been many years since we heard about it.

It is a natural feeling.

I do not deny it. Denying feelings is where people fuck up.

It is our natural reaction to want to ask questions about what we should do.
So you should continue to ask questions, but of your hart and concious, not of a book written 2000 years ago (and edited many times since).

 

you would be perfect for Misstery. are you still single?

 

Wonderwoman, i'm sorry you lost your dad and so young too. What kind of work did your dad do? I knew other kids who had a parent die but i was the only one to have one murdered. now i talk to others all the time. I even know a girl now who was in her mom's stomach while her mom murdered, then she was born in prison. can you imagine what her life was like? she's pretty tough, i have a lot of respect for her.

 

Who is misstery? got a pic?

 

so, i guess this thread is done. sweet. :banginghe

 

Not at all. I think the problem is you might not be looking at God's judgment from the angle I mean.

It's not a sin to be hurt or angry, JB -- Jesus demonstrated both, several times. When I say "trust God's judgment above your own", I mean three things: First, believe with all your heart that God knows better than anyone else -- including you -- exactly how guilty your father's murderers are as a whole, not just in that terrible act. Second, know that there are no loopholes, postponements, technicalites, or hung juries in God's court. The guilty will be judged and condemned on the spot. Third, God's wrath is terrible, to an unimaginable degree. As angry and as vengeful as you might feel, know that even if you could take your best shot at all three of them, it would be nothing compared to what God will do to them.

No, it sure doesn't. Forgiveness doesn't change the facts. I think another problem here could be that you may not have the right picture of what forgiveness really is. Forgiveness is not forgetting or pretending something never happened. That is a lie, and a destructive one at that. No, God doesn't ask you to hide or deny your anger and pain -- He wants you to acknowledge it, be real about it, and then turn it over to Him to deal with it on His terms, which are far stricter and far more terrifying than ours are.

You will feel the loss of your dad until you see him again in heaven, and I'm truly sorry for that. It's perfectly okay to feel that deep ache that he's gone, and anger that those people took him away from you. When you do feel those emotions, God is not asking you to say, "I know I'm not supposed to think angry things about those people so I forgive them," or "God please take this pain away I'm not supposed to feel." He's saying, "Share this with Me. Let it out. And trust Me to bring you and your dad true JUSTICE."

There were many times when I would just picture my mother standing before God at her judgment, being unable to deny what she did to me any more, and being held completely accountable for it. Every look, every smirk, every comment, every insult, every drop of venom she spat at me for all those years will carry a price, and she's going to pay every last bit of it. I took comfort in that.

That's all I ever really wanted. Justice -- swift, inescapable, and absolute. God can and does offer that. That is the faith that enabled me -- in time -- to shed my anger. And after a lot more time, I actually began to fear for her, because I didn't want her to experience God's wrath. And not because she changed, or because God changed, but because I changed. Or, more accurately, He changed me.

JB, you may never fully get over the anger you feel, and I don't think that's wrong at all. I think God wants to help you work through it so you can heal from it, and show others to do the same -- certainly not for the benefit of your father's murderers, but for your benefit. He doesn't want you to have to carry that awful burden any longer than is absolutely necessary. And something I learned from my own experience, I didn't realize how heavy that burden was until it was gone.

 

I resemble that remark! :xyzthumbs

 

Have I told you lately how very proud I am of you?