Can a person have morals

So basically you are saying that you are an immoral person that only obeys the law because someone told you to do so. You have no grasp of what is right or wrong.

 

Some interesting stuff I just read in my current book, The Sociopath Next Door, by Martha Stout. Seems especially pertinent to the idea that people have a tendency more toward evil than good unless they accept direction from a supreme being.

Quote:

As it turns out, individual conscience draws a surprisingly firm line at killing--surprising for those who think of human beings as natural war makers. This aspect of conscience is so resilient in normal people that military psychologists have needed to devise ways around it. For example, military experts now know that to make men kill with any kind of reliability, commands must be given by authorities who are present with the troops. Otherwise, the men in the field will tend to "cheat" on their orders to kill, will intentionally misaim or simply fail to fire . . . .

[United States] Brig. Gen. S.L.A. Marshall [PTO during WWII] . . . wrote . . . almost all soldiers fired their weapons while their leaders were present to command them, but when the leaders left, the firing rate dropped immediately to between 15 and 20 percent.

End Quote.

This author also cites the book On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill, by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman, whose studies include law enforcement & military ranging from the American Civil War through the Falklands War. Grossman comes to "a novel & reassuring conclusion about the nature of man: despite an unbroken tradition of violence & war, man is not by nature a killer." He says that in order to subvert the normal person's conscience in regard to killing other people, soldiers must be carefully taught, psychologically conditioned, & commanded by authorities on the battlefield.

And military forces do use this knowledge to condition soldiers.

Just thought this was very interesting in the context of whether religion is needed to instill morality, & as yet another un-answerable question about how much of morality is nature, & how much nurture.

The Sociopath Next Door is a fascinating study of a condition that is at the heart of this thread. A sociopath literally has no conscience. S/He can do ANYTHING without a shred of guilt or remorse.

 

So
what you going for then?

morals without religion

or
Morals with a bitty tiny bit of religion?

cant have both

The Sociopath Next Door is a fascinating study of a condition that is at the heart of this thread. A sociopath literally has no conscience. S/He can do ANYTHING without a shred of guilt or remorse

Because sociopaths are not rational?

 

that's ludicrous. that's like saying the by accepting the commandment "thou shall not kill" you are embracing budhism (and pretty much every religion there is). is that how you think of yourself? a semi-practicing budhist?

 

Sociopaths are perfectly rational--just incredibly self-centered. It's not their ability to reason that's impaired. It's their ability to FEEL for anyone or anything but themselves.

 

Ever wondered why there is always one random blank inserted in the rifles of a firing squad?

 

I am saying that the commandment "thou shall not kill" came from some religion. Therefore when you accept that as part of our morals then you are accepting something from religion. I am not breaking it down as far as you are into different religions. I am saying that if there had never been religion there would have never been that commandment. Man's nature says it is ok to kill if you have a reason such as your victim is a rival or he has something you want.

 

Or if his religion tells him its ok


Mans nature does not say its ok to kill?

Not if your a rational and reasonable human being
Dont need no religion to tell you that its wrong

 

You do not need religion to tell you that now but in the beginning you did. It has become and accepted part of our culture that we do not kill innocent people. That only got there because religion put it there long ago.

 

Exactly. Individual deniability. "It's possible I won't be responsible for killing this person."