Baptism Question

So, if the thief on the cross was never baptized, did Jesus lie to him? Or did John fabricate that exchange between the two?

Baptism until Jesus came meant exactly that -- cleansing of sins. It was inspired by the great flood, where God 'cleansed' the planet of evil. But there are two major points that argue the change in the meaning of baptism:

1. Jesus asked to be baptized by John at the beginning of His ministry. Jesus was sinless, so why would He ask to be cleansed?

2. In John 3, Jesus teaches Nicodemus the concept of being "born again", suggesting a regeneration, not a cleansing at the point of conversion.

But Paul summarized it best in his letter to the Romans...

According to Paul's words, the baptism of John the Baptist was about repentance and cleansing. Baptism into Christianity is about death of the old sinful self, and the resurrection of the new redeemed self.

 

I was sprinkled, too. But when I was, I hadn't made a real commitment to being a Christian yet. I was sprinkled because someone told me to. Years later I learned what baptism symbolized (Biblically) and was baptized by immersion.

 

As far as I know, there are only two 'rituals' Jesus commanded us to do as Christians -- baptism (Matthew 28:19-20) and communion (Luke 22:19). Doesn't that make it important enough to make sure we get it right?

 

I checked out their website, and they don't seem to have a specific affiliation that I can see. I think they do all their seminars at a Church of Christ in Modesto, but that's because that was the church that offered it's facilities.

Really, as long as they're Christian, I'm not too worried about it. We're not adopting from them, they're just helping us adopt from someone else.

 

i think that it's all in the definition. to me, there's water baptism that's external and there's baptism in the holy spirit, which is internal. i think that people think that water baptism IS being baptised in the holy spirit -- which i don't believe to be true. it's a ritual, to me. the real change takes place before that.

 

Agreed.

 

I think Jesus was more concerned with spirtual change than physical change. The Jewish faith at the time was so much about ritual that the act of baptism meant more to the newly converted.

I also didn't realize the full extent of my faith until years after I was baptized, but I'm not getting baptized again. Nor do I believe someone won't go to heaven if they've professed their faith (publicly or privately) but not been baptized. That seems too trivial.

 

I agree and thats a great point about Jewish rituals that I hadn't thought of before.

 

Agree wholeheartedly.

Same here. And I think that's the way it should be. We should understand our faith a lot more and better years down the road than at the beginning. If we don't, a strong argument could be made that our faith is dead.

I agree, but with one clarification. I do not believe baptism by immersion is essential to salvation, nor do I believe it brings about salvation. At the same time, I understand baptism to be a standing order from Jesus Himself, as told through the great commission (Matthew 28:19-20), making it an important part of an individual's spiritual growth through obedience and deference to the Lordship of Jesus. In short, I don't think it's optional.

 

I was sprinkled and knew exactly what it meant. I am no doubt washed with the blood of Jesus, but I have never been dunked. That will not keep me out of heaven.

I did hear a preacher say one time that baptism is like calling a press con. in sports. You're letting the public know that you've joined another team.