Atheists

Don't really buy that atheists are theives and murderers.....find them more to be live and let live types. They either think of religion as fictional or naive.

I personally have never been able to escape my convictions no matter how hard I may try. God has me by the balls.....that may be my simplistic way of interpreting why I face so many trials and tribulations or it may be the undeniable concious that was fueled by my childhood faith. No matter how much I wish I could ignore my faith....it burns inside and doesn't allow me to deny it.

Atheists definately have an advantage over people of religious faith....no moral convictions. Most adopt a mutual respect for others and live by that code of ethics. I don't really know if that would be atheist though.....more like humanistic. Most atheists are humanists.

 

I can only speak of the atheists I know, and they are few, and you are right. Most are humanists in one form or another. Morals and ethics aren't the exclusive province of the religious. I do feel that most religions that I have even a slight familiarity with share very common values and ethics. I think that goes back to the "truths" we touched on in another thread.

 

Jeffery Dahmer leaps to mind.

 

Well, I don't know about the Sly part, but you have a point. High IQ and religious faith are not mutually exculsive. But I don't think I've ever met a metally retarded atheist, either.

As for unbelievers being more likely to be theives and liars, that's a crock o' hooey, from my experience. Where I'm from, even the most beligerent, wife-beating alcoholic "believes in God." In short, the best people I've ever met and the most wretched cockheads I've ever met can't be clearly categorized by the presence or absence of religious faith. Prisons are filled with hardened criminals who "love God" like they love their babies' mamas. Plenty of other convicts have no use for religion, it's true.

My point is that the theives, murderers, and scoundrels of the world do what they do because of their own personalitiy types and their own individual choices. What they say they believe in is incidental.

 

i think sly's actually sorta right. without a clear moral compass dictated from the word go, societies would have a hard time getting out of the small family group variety. you need an aknowledged golden rule that people will follow when nobody (they see) is watching.

the major religions all share the basic creed of treat others like you'd want to be treated. and that's what makes them major, really. adherents to these religions flourish in societies that flourish.

so religion is great at getting people from the stone age into the pre-industrial age. but once you've got a large, educated, well-infrastructured, modern society, belief in a higher power is probably not so important.

 

:applause:

It shouldn't be that way, but it is.

 

But religion doesn't necessarily precipitate that. 'Following the rules' when no one is watching is a character issue, not a doctrinal one.

Interesting argument. Certainly mutual respect and discipline in a community setting has had an influence on the development of society. Can anyone think of a society of people that has flourished and been secular from beginning to present? I can't think of any off the top of my head...

 

But that seems more like an intellectual argument rather than a character or societal argument like you made before. Or are you saying that religion's best function is to faciltate the growth and development of primitive societies?

 

Why would you need a moral authority? If you only do what you do to avoid hell then you are more a thief than the atheist who admits he dosen't accept jesus. Why would you be accepted into a perfect place where there is no fear when it takes fear to get you to behave. You would be a wolf among lambs.

 

The cynic says it takes fear. The believer says it takes love. I personally believe that if you accept Christ as your savior you will be accepted into heaven. I try (and generally fail) to live a good life not because I am scared of Hell (remember I accept Jesus as my savior) but because I owe it to Jesus for the incredible sacrifice he made for me.