Allah or Jesus?

The Crusades?

 

:applause:

 

So all protestants are to be held accountible for something the catholic church did almost one thousand years ago? Lets talk about the world we live in today. What other religion condones violence to the extent that Islam does?

 

Oh, so things that have happened in the past have no bearing on the present? Christianity saw it's murderous days. Islam is now doing the same.

As for the thousand years....Christ died 2000 years ago. Why is that still relevant if what the church did in his name is not?

 

The church is made up of people who are subject to failure. Christ's work is perfect and not subject to those shortcomings. Obviously the church has done some things in Christ's name that were not what he would have wanted.

All that being said I do not understand the logic that says "Islam can not be held accountible for promoting violence today because the catholic church used violence in the middle ages". That argument just does not hold any water. You could justify anyone or anything's behaviour if all you need is an example of someone doing the same thing or a similar thing in history. It is a circular argument.

 

So Thelt, your premise was that just wars are okay in the eyes of God. Who are you to know what god thinks? Anymore than I am to know what the Muslims all think.

 

No one can know for sure what God thinks but we do have the bible to give us guidelines.

Why is it so hard for you to accept the idea that the muslims who commit violence and those who support them are in the wrong? What difference does it make what christians have done in the past? Is the violence going on now not wrong and immoral regardless of what else has happened?

 

Not exactly.

Muhammad is a prophet/messenger, but Jesus wasn't. He was God incarnate, God in the flesh. It's a crucial distinction between the two faiths.

 

It really depends on the religion how Jesus is considered, even among Christian religions. There's a school of thought that Jesus had a composite divine-human nature, and a school of thought that Jesus had two separate natures, fully human and fully divine. This was the cause of a lot of strife and at least one war even before Islam got started. The internal conflict between these ideas actually helped open the door for Muhammad. On a side note, the popular thought is that the Orthodox Christians actually ordered all Jews to be baptised and the ones who voluntarily complied were given tax breaks.



Islam has complete unity of politics and religion, something that Christianity doesn't, although it's the "state" religion of various countries. Islam recognizes Jesus as a prophet, but not as great as Muhammad.
Muhammad basically imposed his will in the region around Mecca and Medina, absolutely opposing any accommodation to pagans, and converting fellow Arabs by holy war.

Muslims took advantage of the weakness of the Byzantine and Persian empires being exhaused from constant war with one another, and pushed north through modern-day Syria and Iraq, however they tolerated the conquered Christian communities provided they paid taxes and didn't cause any trouble or try to convert any Muslim communities. They forbade mixed marriages, and the seat of Islam moved to Damascus and then to Baghdad.

The "dark ages" were basically caused by the collapse of the Roman Empire, Europe being isolated from the east due to long-running religious wars, and the invasions of the barbarian horde from the north.

Yeah, I don't know what this has to do with anything either, just got off on a tangent once I started talking about Muhammad. I guess I should start a damn book.

 

My vote is for Jesus!