add these to the list of future panthers...

The contract made sense back when he was earning it. What does not make sense is how the rest of you can so readily justify using a roster spot and that "helluva" cap hit for a guy who no longer seems capable of playing like that "helluva" player. Especially when there will be free agents out there who would be faster cheaper and healthier.

Magnus implies that once we get a QB who can consistently get the ball to him he will be the Moose of a few years ago. I don’t agree with that if that's what he's saying. Will a new QB automatically cure his hamstring problem, make him faster, and make him stop the drops? Condescend if you want but I don’t think I’m off base for at least wanting to demote him to a situational possession receiver with an appropriate pay cut and bring in two younger &/or HEALTHIER starters to stretch the field.

 

>>What does not make sense is how the rest of you can so readily justify using a roster spot and that "helluva" cap hit for a guy who no longer seems capable of playing like that "helluva" player.

for one, he's somewhat responded when healthy despite the lack of another decent receiver anywhere on this team and
two, I tend to regard a player as how he's played, rather than his cap hit or personal feelings. I don't care that he costs $x million on the cap because a good portion of that will be there regardless. I'd rather have him, and groom a young player, than not have him at the same price and start a young player that will probably struggle.

He's not played as good the last two years. He's certainly looking like he's on the downside. He'd have to have a better year, around 70 receptions, to keep me from wanting him gone in 2004. There have been games, after the injury, where you see him look like the rest of the pack, though some of these games I'd be surprised if any receiver would have looked good.

So in the end, having a player or losing a player at the same price, considering you're talking about getting two players of his caliber or greater, means basically having three starting receivers on the cap. I'd rather make this team overall better than worry about receiver and let the rest slide.

>>Magnus implies that once we get a QB who can consistently get the ball to him he will be the Moose of a few years ago. I don’t agree with that if that's what he's saying.

I'm not saying he'll be a league leading receiver like in 99 and 00. He'll never have high TD numbers. And chances are, in this offense, he's not going to be used short and intermediately very well.

>>Will a new QB automatically cure his hamstring problem,

certainly not. But it's an expectation that there won't be any one and zero catch games with a healthy, able QB, even if it's a rookie.

>>Condescend if you want but I don’t think I’m off base for at least wanting to demote him to a situational possession receiver .

No need to start off with the attitude. Disagreement isn't condescention.

It's not off base to suggest that it could happen. It certainly is, to say that you can just buy a guy and make him a #1. #1 or #2 receivers don't just go get bought off the rack and then those numbers get slapped on. Matchups, gameplans, they make more of a difference. You line up the best guy you can at the split, and the best at the flanker, that you can get, and then you throw to the open man.

Some people here that I've talked to about Price, who I doubt would come here (and that's something you've never adressed, the idea that we'd just be able to afford two guys like that much less add Moose's cap hit onto), and have suggested he's not a #1 receiver. I can somewhat see that, he's been very inconsistent until FA time and Bledsoe. We certainly aren't running that type offense here, by any means, and that's another factor.

 

based on that statement alot of players should be cut in the NFL, correct?


Kurt Warner, Eddie George are 2 names that pop into my head that haven't been as dominate as they were... so they should be cut.

 

>>>I'd rather make this team overall better than worry about receiver and let the rest slide.<<<

Point understood, and I agree. I’m probably naïve about how much it would cost to get even one upper tier guy in here. Then there is the task of even getting the top FAs to consider coming here right now. It’s not like the Panthers are at the top of any FAs list . . . especially WR since our QB position looks like such a hopeless mess.

>>> There have been games, after the injury, where you see him look like the rest of the pack<<<

Moose no longer even looks like a WR to me sometimes. He looks more like a split out skinny TE, and when he drops he looks even more like a TE (one of ours?).
Look, I just want to get a few WRs that can run and catch and stay relatively healthy so we'll be able to have a more dangerous passing attack. Moose IS slipping but I know he can still be somewhat effective. Does his ability to make that occasional fantastic grab offset his negatives? I don't think so.

 

i'm fine with losing moose. he's not a TD guy. he smells of "contract year player".

 

I'd agree if he hadn't had a better year in 2000 in many respects. he's not played as well since - thanks in part to injuries, and the drops don't help -

Part of it, to me, is the same reason not to lose Steussie. There's only so many first tier needs we can fill, and we're already going out and getting one WR, at least two QBs, a back, and possibly another receiver. We'll have to get a tackle and possibly a guard. TE's a point of major concern, Walls or not. Certainly no one other than Mitchell has earned long term security, and he's not out of the clear if he starts faltering.

But we don't have the guns to go get three top notch offenders, much less be good enough at drafting to get three there as well. And I just named 8 holes, only two of which would even be depth. I'd rather take my chances on two former Pro Bowlers we already have for a year or two than hope we can bat .333 with throwing new money around at two more spots. And that's a worst case.

 

i think that part of it has to do with fox building "his team". moose and walls are pretty much the only guys of any consequence hanging around -- that i can think of -- that were here a few years back.

considering that there will probably be three new quarterbacks here next season and more than two receivers, i don't think that you lose anything except a huge salary by dumping moose. you certainly don't lose anything in terms of chemistry with the qb or on-field leadership. he's got off-field problems, too.

for a posession receiver, he drops a shitload of passes. he's not terrell owens -- or even david boston -- like he wants to be.

it's time to cut the cord here and hope that he gets a kick in the pants by getting a pink slip. he can play with some fire, but i think he needs a change of scenery as much as the panthers need it.

 

no, he's not too good to be let go. I don't think anyone's implied that. But when we've got such huge WR problems, do we really have the ability to go get 2 starting receivers, plus draft at least one? If we phase Moose out, which is worst case, you go get the best receiver you can get in FA and draft a receiver first day. Then you go from there.

It's not about building Fox' team. It should be about getting the best players, whether it is or not. I don't think we can jsut go dismissing every player that's playing below his greatest potential, because we'd be dropping a lot of guys if we take weeks 5 through 11.

 

if moose is on this team next year and is getting phased out, don't you think we can all predict the crap he'll spew about it -- all season long?

i'd rather just get it over with after the draft and let him find a home before the summer. he's just not worth the money.

all you really need are two starting receivers here. get a free agent. get robinson. draft another one.

i think the moose situation is addition by subtraction.

 

And he would come to Carolina why?