A theory

Okay, but if it's all about us finding God, why is He hidden from us? Why not just reveal Himself?

 

it's a test of faith.

 

But why test us?

 

it's like that whole teach a man to fish aphorism. If he just said, "here I am" then we learn nothing. If we have to work for it and have the freedom to make mistakes along the way we learn and grow.

 

But what are we to learn by searching and following a trail of clues that we could not learn from God directly?

 

To think for ourselves.

 

Okay, but consider the example of a human family. Can a parent not teach his or her children to think for themselves while they live at home?

And if the reason for the separation is to teach us to think for ourselves, wouldn't that negate the whole purpose of His leading us back to Him?

 

there's a book called "Towing Jehova" by James Morrow. the premise is that God dies and his corpse falls to earth. The vatican sends a priest on a supertanker to tow the corpse to the north pole and freeze it inside an iceberg. on the way there the priest is trying to figure out the meaning and consequences of the death of god. he eventually comes to the conclusion that god, as the father, at some point needs to step aside to allow his children to grow. sounds a lot like what you're saying. But I don't think that God needs to die in order to step aside. Think of the relationship you have or had with your parents after you'd grown up. It's different than the one you had as a child, more equal and closer in a way. You aren't helpless anymore and the love comes from freewill, not just the fact that they gave birth to you.

 

Maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way.

Maybe what VP is trying to say is that the Biblical account is correct in this: we are all separated from God by our own sin, but He wants us each to find our way back to Him and He's left all sorts of clues to help us do that -- the Bible, nature, and the testimonies of countless believers.

If that is what he's saying, then yes, I could agree with that analogy to a point. But I still think that leaves a lot of holes open.

On a broader scale, it seems like the scavenger hunt scenario is almost a common thread through most major belief systems. The problem is, how do we know which clues to trust? They do not all lead in the same direction.


I hafta head home. I'll jump back in on this tomorrow morning.

 

well, i think what vp's throwing out there is what if we're all supposed to have faith without proof. and the clues god has left are there to essentially "trap" those without true faith into finding god and thus ending the big game.

this goes in line with the idea that faith cannot exist with absolute proof (faith requires not knowing for sure, but still believing). once we find god, then nobody would be able to have faith in him anymore (tho i suppose they could still have faith in his future actions maybe). if only those with faith in god are saved, then the only saved people would be those that had faith prior to the discovery of god.

the second aspect is that god knows this and has purposefully (since he's in charge) laid out clues that will eventually lead the people to his discovery. presumably the only people searching are those without faith, so it's a bit of a trap for them. the less faith, the quicker the game ends.