Beason - what would make him a guinea pig?

Dammit, I knew you were going to get me to respond, despite myself .

Maybe, I don't pay attention to your typical bitch fests once they go past the intelligent discourse faze. So whatever I was going to say might have been said before, but then maybe not. Doesn't really matter. The reason I didn't say what I started to is that it's a pointless move. It would do nothing but anger you and cause the subject to be lost.

As for attacking you previously, that wasn't my intent. To be honest, I'm not sure exactly what I said that you are referring to. I didn't go back and re-read my post, so I might have stated something harsher than I meant. But I stand by any point I made.

First of all, I'm not arguing about anything but Beason’s negotiations. I am not disputing what the Panthers previously did. But while it MAY be a fact that every other first round picks got the option, YOU don't know it as fact...at least unless you have seen each of the contracts they signed. Otherwise you are just speculating based on hearsay and your own assumptions.

Fair enough, I can see how you could take it that way. However, I will mention that nowhere in that, or any other statement did I say or imply that I had any inside information or special knowledge. It was meant as just my opinion, but I'll give you that I probably overstated it. Although I still think I am right.

I have to say, this is the extreme of absurd. I appreciate that you have no personal enmity towards me (nor I you, I just disagree with your thoughts in this discussion), but to say that your credibility is any more than mine is ridiculous. You don’t know me, or my experience, so you can only guess at my credibility, and since I intentionally limit my posts (for various reasons, primarily time) you really don’t have anything to justify it in print.

And if you are referring to our respective credibility on the message board, well, to be honest I’m not interested in impressing anyone here and don’t really care if others see me as credible or not. I don't know anyone personally, so their relevance to my life is minimal. I will say, though, that through the years your analysis has been challenged many times on the boards. But when people disagree with you, you insult them and try to discredit their opinions as stupid which usually causes the real issue to get lost in the bickering. So you are left still believing you were right…even when you weren’t. All the same, I don’t believe you would accept being proven wrong anyway (not meant as an insult, just an observation). And quite frankly, I think many here realize it, but know it's not worth the bother to argue...but of course, that is only my speculation based on what I have read from other posters. So as far as your credibility being higher than mine on the board, maybe, maybe not. But it still doesn't change the fact that every post here carries equal relevance since this place is just a place for fans to share ideas and thoughts…no matter if they are right or wrong or just plain silly.

Nevertheless, the main point is that you have provided no more evidence to support your opinions than I or anyone else has. So they all are the same thing...opinions, and nothing more. And without proof, one opinion is as good as another. But I will say I do pay attention to and think about your opinions, even if I disagree with them, because they are founded upon some fundamental knowledge you possess. But I do think sometimes you formulate your opinion based on incomplete information, which occasionally leads to incorrect conclusions. And although you do not know me, my background, or really even what most of my football thoughts are, I can assure you that I do not talk out of my ass or make claims without at least some logical reason for doing so (that’s not intended to convince you, just to let you know where I’m coming from).

Again, as far as I know, you have not seen any signed first round contracts, so you do not know that all teams have given the option. In fact, the only place I have seen it mentioned is by Beason's agent, and anything he says is clearly slanted to his clients favor...and yes, exaggerated to further his cause.

Also, it's not silly to believe that teams will wait to see how this thing plays out before considering whether or not they want to adopt it next year. This is not uncommon in business. Businesses often don't want to be the guinea pig for a radical change that will affect an entire industry because they don’t want to take the hit that invariably comes with such a move, not to mention the consequences if the ploy doesn't work. They want someone else to risk themselves before they make the change for their organizations. Especially in a business like the NFL, where teams hate the idea of a holdout. They want someone else to deal with the holdout (or whatever outcome is the result) so the precedent will be set before using that tactic themselves in negotiations.

So, IMO, the only legitimate gripe against the Panthers is why they have to set themselves up as the guinea pig. Even though I agree with the logic behind it, I do wish it were another team taking the stand (regardless of whether the Raiders are or not).

 

they don't have that much of a choice of signing or not. We draft them, and then they inevitably sign. I don't like it, but it's out there, and it's very rare that they don't eventually sign. The problem is, the Peter holdout was heinous, hurt him, hurt us, then he got hurt. He was never useful.
That's not worth it.

 

See also; Tshimanga Biakabutuka

 

I can't see any way the agent lets him cave, the agent may walk away and suggest Beason sign with a new agent - but he can't go down as the guy that let a team set precedent against him - can he?

 

Most every fact that we deal with on this or any other board is going to be second-hand. Obviously I haven't read each player's contract, but very few people have. By the same token, I didn't actually count how many yards from scrimmage Steven Jackson had last season, I'm just relying on other sources to inform me. And on this issue, those sources confirm that the other first round picks are getting option bonuses.

Where do I ever claim that I have inside sources with teams? My comments are deducted logic, and the problem with your statement is that it's illogical. There aren't any surprises here. Other teams know that the chances of a player signing if you insist on not giving an option bonus are eventually very good, so there's no particular precedent to set. Those other teams have simply judged the risks to be acceptable, and much less onerous than a prolonged holdout. They obviously aren't going to change their minds and make the complete opposite decision next year in the same situation.

You've got to be kidding.

Exactly. No one knows who the fuck you are, so until you establish some sort of track record on speculation and insight, it's obviously ridiculous for you to pretend that you're going to have the same level of credibility as someone like me. People recognize that I have good judgment on football subjects because I've proven it over years.

Incorrect. I've been wrong certainly on more than one occasion, and I've admitted it when it happened and learned from those instances. What you're talking about with people unable to prove me wrong is generally because I'm not wrong.

Do you have any idea how utterly stupid that sounds? First of all, you obviously don't believe that because I'm sure you don't devote the same amount of attention to other people's posts that you do to mine or magnus's, but the very idea itself is offensive. Are message boards communist now or just ideologically a bunch of hippie bullshit? The world is not made up of flowers and rainbows, and people or posts are most definitely not created equal. As I said, even suggesting otherwise makes you look either exceptionally naive or dishonest.

Do you have some sort of memory difficulty that prevents you from remembering anything that didn't happen within the last fifteen seconds? Yes, I did provide evidence to support what I'm saying. You're the one who has absolutely none for your own statements. As I've said repeatedly, it is a fact that we gave an option bonus to Smith, and that other teams are giving them out to draft picks.

Yes, it is. Good lord, read what other people are saying if you just refuse to believe me. What you're saying is incredibly retarded. Other teams know that Beason is almost certainly going to sign, and they knew that before negotiations began. If any other team thought it was worth a holdout to engage in this kind of bullshit, they'd be doing it too. The idea that they'll start doing so next year is asinine, whether your feelings are too hurt to admit that or not.

No, there are plenty of legitimate gripes against the Panthers here. There's no need for them to be complete dicks when the NFL is already favoring teams by having salaries not guaranteed the way that other leagues are. Hurney expecting the draftees to take on even more financial risk is idiotic. And like I said, if they were so paranoid about option bonuses they could just do it all as a signing bonus, but Hurney doesn't like what that would mean for the cap distribution.


Clearly the underlying problem here is that you're upset that you're not perceived as the special little snowflake your mother said you were. Expecting anyone to give a shit about what you write, much less accept it as plausible, depends on your history and how good your argument is. Insisting that there's some kind of special rule on the internet where everyone's opinion should be equal only makes it clear that you're aware and worried about the fact that your opinions aren't good enough to get that job done.

My advice to you is: Get over it.

 

You know, everything you wrote really made me laugh because it’s obvious you actually believe what you say. Just amazing. Enjoy your delusions...they fit you well.

However, I hate to disappoint, but I will not be playing with you any more, it’s just not worth it to waste my time on this nonsense any longer. So when you respond with more insults, it certainly won't be for my benefit...but hopefully it will make you feel better .

Still, I did want to say one thing about the above quote before I left. This, above all the other ridiculous things you have said, made me laugh the loudest. You actually think that frequent posting and being known on a message board gives you credibility. Now that's damn funny...and pathetic. But then, what else should I expect from someone who is so desperate to feel important that they routinely berate, insult, or otherwise maliciously assault other posters for the simple offense of disagreeing with you. Man, you sure do make if fun around here .

 

maybe they should offer Beason a contract like the Packers signed Harrell to. No signing bonus, a roster bonus this year, and an option bonus next.

 

http://www.heraldonline.com/news/sports/story/89041.html

Another agents (Delhomme's) take.

Doesn't sound like he blames Hurney.

 

makes Hurney sound worse when you couple him not budging with the story thay he offered it and then retracted it

 

I would bet the initial agreement to an option bonus (if there ever was one) was made by Rogers and Hurney said no way when he checked on progress. Hurney isn't talking about negotiations in the press so we only hear Beason's agent's side which will obviously make Hurney/Panthers sound worse.