Shula

You take that back Cowher never makes mistakes.

 

McCoy probably helped his chances by hiring Whisenhunt. Still, it's hard to watch him in front of a podium. He's got that Ron Rivera "I'm nervous so I'll just start talking until I can't shut the fuck up" thing going on.

 

Stop it. You're embarrassing yourself by constantly presenting excuses for your idiocy instead of just not saying idiotic things. Was Brad Johnson really a much better quarterback than Trent Dilfer? Whenever you're bringing up Ken Dilger & Rickey Dudley (the TEs) to support your argument, that's a huge clue that you need to shut up. The difference is that Tampa Bay then had someone competent to run the offense. Stop making moronic excuses for Shula. The only thing that accomplishes is to make you look like a moron.

In 1994 they were 26th and in 1995 they were 29th. During Shula's four seasons they finished 30th, 23rd, 18th, and 27th. That's not really an improvement. Why are you even arguing this anyway? Do you honestly not think Hue Jackson would have been a much better choice?

 

Yeah, Im imbarrassing myself. While you're completely ignoring the upgrade to veteran pro bowl calibre starting WR's and a competent #3 WR. Lets focus the attention on a blocking TE coming of a pro bowl selection in 2001 and hopefully nobody notices the stupid shit im spewing. Both TE's were admittedly on the downsides of their careers and Dudley had less of an impact than I thought, I was recalling his OAK days where he excelled.

And while both QB's could be considered game managers Johnson was in his prime years in Tampa and was a considerably better passer IMO. Johnson had a career 61.7% in pass completion while Trent had a 55.5%. Also keep in mind during both players superbowl runs Johnson averaged a 100 more passing yards per game.

But were also getting way off topic here, were now talking 3 years after Shula left. I dont know what is so difficult in seeing that they lacked the personnel in the passing game both prior and during Shulas reign and that it drastically changed afterwards. Even the coaching philosophy changed from Dungy to Gruden.

Im not trying to suggest Shula is the second coming, just that he did have some success.

And it really is pretty obtuse to ignore the work he has already done here with Cam. And with the further hiring of Dorsey it appears continuity is key. He was a QB under Chud at the U and in Cleveland. I get that others here on the board are uninspired and not impressed and wished to go another route. But that doesnt mean we're doomed for failure and are predestined to have an offense that matches the Bucs in scoring output 10 plus years ago. The game has changed since then, the rules have changed since then and we simply have better personnel than they had.

Yeah, 26th when there was only 28 teams and 29th when there were only 30 team in the league. And its not even about how much better the rankings were or weren't, its about acknowledging the lack of talent on offense.

I already said I wanted Hue before the hire, he has an impressive resume. But we brought in Hue for an interview so its not like they refused to consider that avenue. Maybe the guy just rubbed Gettleman and Rivera the wrong way. Maybe there are reasons that he has been unable to stay with one team more than 2 years. He has bounced around an awefull lot and the Raiders were the most penalised team in the NFL under Jackson which might just be a reflection of his personality.

Or maybe Shula has grown and Rivera thought he was truly the best man for the job. Either way, that is who he has hitched his wagon to. Its his career on the line too. Hopefully the rule of 3 rings true.

Once again im gonna leave it here and let you get the last word, so go ahead and call me names, stupid, a retarded idiot and that I know nothing about football.

 

You are stupid, a retarded idiot and know nothing about football.

Except not. I enjoy and appreciate your perspective. I agree with the premise of your original statements and I agree that we are not doomed because of this. We may suck but it's not preordained.

Of course I'm stupid, a retarded idiot and know nothing about football.

 

Shula was the only one who came prepared for the interview. I don't know how Shula will do this year, but Rivera is not going to waste time trying to let other OCs figure out how to use the players on the roster.

 

McCoy probably helped his chances by hiring Whisenhunt. Still, it's hard to watch him in front of a podium. He's got that Ron Rivera "I'm nervous so I'll just start talking until I can't shut the fuck up" thing going on.

 

You are, which is why everyone who knows anything about football keeps telling you that you're wrong. And every time I prove you wrong, you come up with yet another bullshit excuse to keep arguing your same discredited position. Let's recap:


* You started here by acknowledging that Shula's offenses had horrible numbers, but you made the argument that it wasn't his fault because Tampa Bay was built around its defense, as if somehow that makes the offense awful by default. Never mind that plenty of defensive-oriented teams have good or even great offenses.


* You then made the idiotic argument that Shula somehow should get credit for Tampa Bay's won/loss record even though his offense was shit and the defense was dominant.


* Then you pretended that Keyshawn Johnson was such an amazing receiver that his addition explained Tampa Bay's offensive improvement instead of them going from an incompetent OC to someone who actually knows how to call plays. This got you roundly mocked by multiple people.


* You then again pretend that "Shula did have some success as an OC" even though his offenses ranked 28th, 22nd, 29th, and 28th in yards gained, along with 27th, 18th, 23rd, and 30th in points scored.


* Confronted with these facts, you go back to the idiotic assertion that the Bucs being a running team explains those bad rankings. I then point out that the top five rushing teams in 2012 ranked 14th or better in points scored. I also pointed out that Tampa Bay actually wasn't good at running the ball. Only once (1998) did they have a top ten rushing attack under Shula. The other three years they were 11th, 15th, and 22nd. Meanwhile their passing offense ranked 30th, 27th, 30th, and 29th in those four seasons. So they couldn't pass and they couldn't run despite having a Pro Bowl caliber running back and fullback.


* You then yet again go back to pretending that Shula was responsible for Tampa Bay's won/loss record instead of the obvious reality that his terrible offenses prevented them from being more successful. Those defenses should have made Super Bowl appearances under Dungy. Instead they never did anything of consequence until the Bucs fired Dungy and found someone competent to run the offense.


* At this point you again claim that Tampa Bay was a good running team despite being given statistics showing that they were actually an average running team while also being one of the worst in the league at passing.


* Then you explain away Tampa Bay getting so much better after Shula was fired by talking about "Brad, Keenan, Key, Jurevicious and a few capable TE's." We had already covered how stupid it was for you to pretend that Keyshawn could elevate an offense, so I made fun of you for trying to act like Ken Dilger & Rickey Dudley were difference-making tight ends. McCardell actually was a really good wideout for Jacksonville, but wasn't the same player after leaving the Jags. Meanwhile Jurevicius averaged 291 receiving yards during his three seasons with the Bucs. Acting like those guys represented overwhelming talent was pretty moronic, and yet again illustrated that you were looking for any excuse you could to avoid admitting you were wrong.


* Then you talked about Shula's work with Cam, as if he didn't have horrible footwork and questionable decision-making. Either Newton is ignoring what coaching he gets or that coaching has been insufficient.


And so now we're up to your last rebuttal where you still refuse to acknowledge that much better offensive coordinator candidates than Shula were available. He had awful results in Tampa Bay, and while that doesn't necessarily mean he will be just as awful with Carolina, it does mean we have good reason to be depressed about his elevation to OC and pessimistic about what it means for the offense.

What makes you look like a total moron is your repeated insistence that Shula "had some success" with the Bucs, since that is such an obvious lie. Again, here are the numbers:

1996 - 28th in yards, 30th in points.
1997 - 29th in yards, 23rd in points.
1998 - 22nd in yards, 18th in points.
1999 - 28th in yards, 27th in points.

That is not success. That is failure. Repeated, embarrassing failure.

 

I'm glad you posted what you did, celt. I want to see a different side of things, and I enjoyed reading each post.

I think you're wrong - I think Shula was a terrible choice that did essentially doom any chance we had of rising to the next level - but that's just one guy's opinion, and I'm glad you shared yours.

Celtic...I hope you're right on this one, and you get the shove this thread down our collective throats. I'll just say that.

Hue Jackson....

Mike Shula....

God, dammit.

 

Nothing in the future will change that CelticCat looked like a moron for insisting that Shula had success as the OC for Tampa.